Ladder Operators acting upon N Ket

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the properties of ladder operators acting on energy eigenstates in quantum harmonic oscillators. Participants explore the mathematical relationships and implications of these operators, particularly focusing on the transitions between states represented by the notation \(\left| \psi_n \right\rangle\). The conversation includes theoretical aspects and some mathematical reasoning.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about the derivation of the relationships involving ladder operators and energy eigenstates, specifically why \( a \left| \psi_n \right\rangle = \sqrt{n} \left| \psi_{n-1} \right\rangle \) and \( a^{\dagger} \left| \psi_n \right\rangle = \sqrt{n+1} \left| \psi_{n+1} \right\rangle \).
  • Another participant clarifies that \(\left| \psi_n \right\rangle\) represents a stationary state of the harmonic oscillator with a specific energy, and that ladder operators change the energy state, thus changing the state itself.
  • A participant suggests that any constant multiple of an eigenstate must also be an eigenstate, raising questions about how to find the normalization constant when applying the ladder operators.
  • There is a mention of the Hamiltonian and its relation to the energies of the states, with a participant confirming their understanding of the Hamiltonian's form and its implications for eigenstates.
  • Another participant recommends calculating the norms of the states resulting from the action of the ladder operators to further understand the constants of proportionality involved.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the derivation of the properties of ladder operators, and there remains uncertainty regarding the normalization of states and the constants involved in the relationships. Multiple viewpoints and approaches are presented without resolution.

Contextual Notes

Some limitations include the dependence on the definitions of the states and operators, as well as unresolved mathematical steps related to the normalization of the states after applying the ladder operators.

Godmar02
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I can't seem to find information regarding this anywhere.

I understand why when the ladder operators act upon an energy eigenstate of energy E it produces another eigenstate of energy E [tex]\mp\hbar \omega[/tex]. What I don't understand is why the following is true:

[tex]\ a \left| \psi _n \right\rangle &= \sqrt{n} \left| \psi _{n-1} \right\rangle[/tex]
[tex]\ a^{\dagger} \left| \psi _n \right\rangle &= \sqrt{n+1} \left| \psi _{n+1} \right\rangle[/tex]

I don't really even know what [tex]\left| \psi _n \right\rangle[/tex] represents, though I think it is something to do with the state of a system. How can you derive the above property?

I am a bit of a beginner to SHO in quantum theory.
 
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Any help would be greatly appreciated, I am sure I am missing something simple. Thanks
 
[tex]\psi_n[/tex] is a stationary state of the harmonic oscillator with energy [tex]E = (n+1/2)\hbar \omega[/tex]

Ladder operators [tex]a_{+}, a_{-}[/tex] raise the energy of the state from n to n+1 or lower n to n-1.

Since the energy changes the state must change as well since the state is characterized by its energy. If you raise the energy by n+1 you raise the state to [tex]\psi_{n+1}[/tex]

So you can sort of see that if a ladder operator acts on a stationary wave function in state n it will raise the state to n+1 by some proportionality constant:

[tex]\ a_+ \left| \psi _n \right\rangle \alpha \left| \psi _{n+1} \right\rangle[/tex]

The two are proportional. Mathematically you can show the proportionality constants are [tex]\sqrt{n+1} and \sqrt{n}[/tex] respectively.
 
So would I be right in saying that this works because any constant multiple of an eigenstate must also be an eigenstate.
i.e. if the constant of proportionality is beta then this works because

[tex]H (a^\dagger \left| \psi _n \right\rangle) = (E + \hbar\omega) (a^\dagger \left| \psi _n\right\rangle)[/tex]
[tex]\beta \ H \left| \psi _{n+1} \right\rangle = \beta (E + \hbar\omega) \left| \psi _{n+1} \right\rangle[/tex]

To find beta would I then have to take the modulus squared of [tex] \ a_+ \left| \psi _n \right\rangle[/tex] and set it to be equal to 1(normalising it). If that is correct what do I use for [tex] \left| \psi _n \right\rangle[/tex] ?

Sorry if I have misunderstood you.
 
Have you shown that the energies of the states are given by [tex]E_n = (n+1/2)\hbar\omega[/tex] and that the Hamitonian can be written as [tex]H=\hbar\omega(a^\dagger a+1/2)[/tex]?

The eigenstates [tex]|\psi_n>[/tex] are assumed to be normalized so that [tex]<\psi_n|\psi_n>=1[/tex]. With a little fiddling, you can calculate what [tex]a|\psi_n>[/tex] and [tex]a^\dagger|\psi_n>[/tex] are.
 
yes I have. I think I understand

If I write [tex] H=\hbar\omega(a^\dagger a\ +1/2) \<br /> or \ H= \hbar\omega(aa^\dagger\ -1/2)[/tex]

And then act upon an eigenvector [tex] |\psi_n>[/tex], which returns [tex] E_n = (n+1/2)\hbar\omega <br /> |\psi_n>[/tex]

I can show that
[tex] aa^\dagger|\psi_n>=n|\psi_n>[/tex]
and
[tex] a^\dagger a|\psi_n>=(n+1)|\psi_n>[/tex]


I know that the identities solve this but I cannot prove it from here, since the constants of proportionality are functions of n. What can I do?
 
Try calculate the norms of [itex]a\left|\psi_n\right>[/itex] and [itex]a^\dagger\left|\psi_n\right>[/itex].
 
ahhhhhh you legend. Makes so much sense now, sorry for being a bit dense. Thanks so much!
 

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