Learn the Truth about Integrals of 1/x: Debunking Common Misconceptions

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the integral of the function \( \frac{1}{x} \), specifically addressing misconceptions related to its evaluation and the implications of integrating with respect to negative values. Participants explore the definitions and properties of logarithmic functions in the context of definite integrals, as well as the notation and techniques used in integration.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion regarding the evaluation of the integral \( -\int_1^e \frac{dx}{x} \) and the implications of integrating \( \frac{1}{-x} \), questioning their understanding of logarithmic definitions.
  • Another participant clarifies that the integral of \( \frac{1}{x} \) should be expressed as \( \ln{|x|} + C \) and emphasizes the importance of considering the absolute value when integrating over positive and negative domains.
  • A later reply reiterates the correct evaluation of the integrals, stating that both \( -\int_1^e \frac{dx}{x} \) and \( \int_1^e \frac{dx}{-x} \) yield the same result, but highlights a mistake in the initial participant's approach regarding variable substitution.
  • One participant requests further clarification on the notation used for integrating with respect to negative variables, expressing their novice status in calculus.
  • Another participant explains that the notation \( dx = -d(-x) \) is a shorthand for substitution and provides an alternative method of substitution to clarify the integration process.
  • A different perspective is introduced, discussing the derivative of a logarithmic function and how it relates to the integral of a composite function, emphasizing the manipulation of differentials in integration.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the need to consider the absolute value when integrating \( \frac{1}{x} \), but there are differing views on the clarity and correctness of the notation and substitution methods used in the integration process. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the best approach to explain these concepts to beginners.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the implications of integrating with respect to negative variables and the proper handling of boundaries during substitution. There are also unresolved questions about the clarity of the explanations provided, particularly for those new to calculus.

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TL;DR
I've read somewhere that if a function is integrable over some domain, then a scalar multiple of that function is also integrable over the same domain. Moreover, the integral of a scalar multiple of a function is the scalar multiple of the integral of that function. But when I think about the integral of the function ##f(x)=\frac{1}{x}##, I start to get confused.
Let's take an integral##−\int_1^e\frac{dx}{x}##. On one hand, this is equal to ##-\ln(x)|_1^e##. But on the other, ##−\int_1^e\frac{dx}{x}=\int_1^e\frac{dx}{-x}##. If I assume that the integral of this is ##\ln⁡(-x)|_1^e##, then I'd be really stupid since ##\ln## is not even defined over the negative real numbers. I am very sure I am misunderstanding something very important in these statements I have cited. Or maybe I forgot some key statements that go along with these. Either way, I'm confused, and it's been bothering me all day. Can someone help me point out my mistakes? Thanks.
 
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Indeed, when you integrate ##\tfrac{1}{x}##, you need to take into account that logarithm is defined on the positive subset of the real line, so it is correct to write:
$$\int \frac{dx}{x} = \ln{\vert x \vert} + C$$
That's the correct formula, so the confusion shouldn't arise in that case. Namely, we have:
$$-\int_1^e \frac{dx}{x} = -(\ln{\vert x\vert})\vert_1^e = -1$$
$$\int_1^e \frac{dx}{-x} = -\int_1^e \frac{d(-x)}{-x} = -(\ln{\vert -x\vert})\vert_1^e = -1$$

Is that clearer now? You made a mistake also, when you put a scalar in the integral, you forgot to change the variable(x into -x), so you didn't get the extra minus sign, besides missing the absolute value.
 
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Okay, I got it. Thank you for explaining it to me.
 
You're welcome!
 
Eclair_de_XII said:
Okay, I got it. Thank you for explaining it to me.

If you've got your degree, you can stop tormenting yourself with mathematics now!
 
Antarres said:
Indeed, when you integrate ##\tfrac{1}{x}##, you need to take into account that logarithm is defined on the positive subset of the real line, so it is correct to write:
$$\int \frac{dx}{x} = \ln{\vert x \vert} + C$$
That's the correct formula, so the confusion shouldn't arise in that case. Namely, we have:
$$-\int_1^e \frac{dx}{x} = -(\ln{\vert x\vert})\vert_1^e = -1$$
$$\int_1^e \frac{dx}{-x} = -\int_1^e \frac{d(-x)}{-x} = -(\ln{\vert -x\vert})\vert_1^e = -1$$

Is that clearer now? You made a mistake also, when you put a scalar in the integral, you forgot to change the variable(x into -x), so you didn't get the extra minus sign, besides missing the absolute value.
Hi, I was just reading through this thread and became quite confused when I say you state that ##\int_1^e \frac{dx}{-x} = -\int_1^e \frac{d(-x)}{-x}##, specifically where ##dx## becomes ##d(-x)##. I'm almost certainly a complete novice when it comes to calculus but I am still quite confused as to how/why you are integrating with respect to negative x. Any chance you could explain it to a beginner? Thanks for your time :)
 
That is just a shorter notation for substitution. We have either:
$$dx = -d(-x)$$
due to linearity of differential. In this case we have integration in variable ##-x##, without performing the change of variables explicitly(since we integrate ##d(-x)##).
Or we can perform a substitution: ##u = -x, du = -dx## in which case we get:
$$\int_1^e \frac{dx}{-x} = \int_{-1}^{-e} \frac{-du}{u}$$
When we perform a change of variables, we must change the boundaries of integration, that's why 1 goes to -1, and e goes to -e. And now when we integrate in ##u##, we get the same result.

So basically, you can look at ##dx## in an integral, as a mark of what variable you're integrating. But also, it is a differential, so you can for example do something like ##2xdx = d(x^2)##, where you effectively change the integration variable from ##x## to ##x^2## without explicitly doing it. When you write this way, you don't change the boundaries, since you haven't changed variables explicitly, and in the end result you substitute ##x## with the boundaries, not ##x^2##.

Hope I didn't make that sound too confusing.
 
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This is my take:
In a general sense, ##d/dx(ln(f(x)) =\frac {f'(x)dx}{f(x)} ##

In your case , to have an integral of a composite function f(x) , you put it in above form: ##f(x)=-x ## given

##\frac {dx}{-x} =\frac {d(-x)(-1)}{-x}= \frac {-1}{-x} d(-x)##
 

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