Learning Tensor Basics: Overcoming Difficulties

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    Difficulty Tensors
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around understanding the basics of tensors, particularly in the context of proving properties related to tensor components across different coordinate systems. Participants explore various methods of demonstrating that certain tensor components must be zero, as well as the implications of linear algebraic equations in this context.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks assistance with tensor concepts, indicating a learning phase.
  • Another participant confirms a method used to show that if certain tensor components are zero in one coordinate system, they must be zero in all others, emphasizing the coordinate independence of tensors.
  • A different approach is suggested, where the starting equation is expressed in component form, leading to a set of linear homogeneous equations, which implies that all components must be zero.
  • One participant questions whether they need to show all steps in a derivation or if they can simplify the process by stating they divided both sides of an equation.
  • Another participant reiterates the linear algebraic equation perspective, asking for clarification on the solution for unknowns when all equations equal zero.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various methods and perspectives on proving tensor properties, but there is no consensus on the best approach or whether simplifications can be made in the derivation process.

Contextual Notes

Some assumptions about the properties of tensors and the nature of the equations involved are not explicitly stated, leaving room for interpretation and further exploration.

grzz
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I am learning about tensors. Can somebody give me some help. Thanks.
 

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What you did was correct. You used[tex] \frac{\partial X^\mu}{\partial x^\alpha} \, \frac{\partial X^\nu}{\partial x^\beta} R_{\mu \nu} = r_{\alpha \beta}[/tex]and put [itex]r_{\alpha \beta} = 0[/itex] to prove [itex]R_{\mu \nu} = 0[/itex]. You could have done it the other way round, i.e. put [itex]R_{\mu \nu} = 0[/itex] to prove [itex]r_{\alpha \beta} = 0[/itex]. As we are talking about two arbitrary coordinate systems, that is equally valid.
 
You can kind of see this directly. If all of the tensor components are zero in one coordinate system, they must be zero in all others as well. So to show this, just show that the tensor itself is zero,

[tex]R = R_{\mu \nu} (dx^{\mu} \otimes dx^{\nu}) = 0[/tex]

and since the tensor itself is a geometric, coordinate independent object, you're done.
 
Here's another way of doing the problem. Write the starting equation out in component form. You will realize before you are finished writing that the starting equation represents a set of 16 linear homogeneous algebraic equations in 16 unknowns (the 16 components of R). Since the equations are homogeneous, the only solution to this set of equations is for each and every unknown to be zero.

chet
 
DrGreg said:
What you did was correct. You used[tex] \frac{\partial X^\mu}{\partial x^\alpha} \, \frac{\partial X^\nu}{\partial x^\beta} R_{\mu \nu} = r_{\alpha \beta}[/tex]and put [itex]r_{\alpha \beta} = 0[/itex] to prove [itex]R_{\mu \nu} = 0[/itex]. You could have done it the other way round, i.e. put [itex]R_{\mu \nu} = 0[/itex] to prove [itex]r_{\alpha \beta} = 0[/itex]. As we are talking about two arbitrary coordinate systems, that is equally valid.

So to remove [itex]\frac{∂X^{μ}}{∂x^{α}}[/itex][itex]\frac{∂X^{σ}}{∂x^{β}}[/itex] from the lhs of [itex]\frac{∂X^{μ}}{∂x^{α}}[/itex][itex]\frac{∂X^{σ}}{∂x^{β}}[/itex] R[itex]_{μσ}[/itex] = 0, do I have to show all the steps as I did before (see the pdf in my origianal post) or can I just say that I divided both sides by [itex]\frac{∂X^{μ}}{∂x^{α}}[/itex][itex]\frac{∂X^{σ}}{∂x^{β}}[/itex]?

Thanks everybody for all your help.
 
If you have 16 linear algebraic equations in 16 unknowns, and the right hand sides of all the equations are equal to zero, what is the solution for the unknowns?
 

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