Let a and b denote 2 2d vectors

  • Thread starter Thread starter ibaforsale
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    2d Vectors
Click For Summary
SUMMARY

The discussion centers on proving the inequality \( a \cdot b \leq ||a|| \, ||b|| \) for two 2D vectors \( a = \langle a_1, a_2 \rangle \) and \( b = \langle b_1, b_2 \rangle \). Participants emphasize the importance of correctly calculating the dot product and magnitudes, leading to the expression \( 0 \leq a_1^2b_2^2 + a_2^2b_1^2 - 2a_1b_1a_2b_2 \). The final goal is to demonstrate that this expression is non-negative, which is achieved through algebraic manipulation and understanding of squared terms.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of vector operations, specifically dot products and magnitudes.
  • Familiarity with algebraic manipulation, including squaring and expanding expressions.
  • Knowledge of the Cauchy-Schwarz inequality in vector mathematics.
  • Basic calculus concepts related to inequalities and limits.
NEXT STEPS
  • Study the Cauchy-Schwarz inequality and its applications in vector analysis.
  • Practice algebraic manipulation techniques to simplify and solve inequalities.
  • Explore geometric interpretations of vector magnitudes and dot products.
  • Learn about the implications of vector inequalities in physics and engineering contexts.
USEFUL FOR

Students in linear algebra, mathematics enthusiasts, and anyone looking to deepen their understanding of vector inequalities and their proofs.

  • #31
ibaforsale said:
oh okay, so i get

2 <= (a12b22 + a22b12) / a1b1a2b2

or if i move everything i get

0 <= a12b22 + a22b12 - 2a1b1a2b2

OK. Only the second expression has everything on the right side. So now you have to figure out why that is ##\ge 0##.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
  • #32
ibaforsale said:
oh okay, so i get

2 <= (a12b22 + a22b12) / a1b1a2b2
The above won't do you any good.
ibaforsale said:
or if i move everything i get

0 <= a12b22 + a22b12 - 2a1b1a2b2

Or more suggestively, 0 <= a12b22 - 2a1b1a2b2 + a22b12

There's something you need to do with this...
 
  • #33
LCKurtz said:
OK. Only the second expression has everything on the right side. So now you have to figure out why that is ##\ge 0##.

is it greater than 0 because the squared terms will always be greater?
 
  • #34
ibaforsale said:
is it greater than 0 because the squared terms will always be greater?

How do you know that? Are you just guessing?
 
  • #35
my thinking is that squaring something will always be bigger than multiplying by 2
 
  • #36
First, the things you are squaring aren't the same as the things you are multiplying by two, and secondly, (1/2)2 < 2*(1/2) so the basic logic there doesn't work.

You need to do some algebra to re-write the right hand side.
 
  • #37
Squaring ##1## isn't bigger than multiplying it by ##2##. Look, you need to do some algebraic manipulation with that expression to make it obvious that is is ##\ge 0##. We have led you by the hand to this point and I don't see how we can give you that last step without having worked the whole problem for you.

As a matter of curiosity, what course are you in and what courses have you already had?
 
  • #38
i was thinking the algebra might include taking out common terms but there are none, can i get a hint as to what needs to happen
 
  • #39
LCKurtz said:
We have led you by the hand to this point and I don't see how we can give you that last step without having worked the whole problem for you.
That's how I feel as well.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 17 ·
Replies
17
Views
3K
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
4K