Levels of Civilization Based on Deuterium

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the concept of creating a hierarchy of civilizations based on their access to and use of deuterium, particularly in the context of fusion energy. Participants explore the feasibility of such a hierarchy, the current state of deuterium fusion technology, and alternative metrics for evaluating civilization advancement.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose a hierarchy of civilizations based on the accumulation or fusion of cultivated deuterium, citing its potential as a significant energy source.
  • Others argue that controlled fusion of deuterium is not currently achievable, emphasizing that protium is more abundant and suggesting that a device capable of fusing deuterium alone does not exist today.
  • A participant references external sources to support the idea that deuterium is used in fusion reactors, but another challenges this by stating that most reactors do not use tritium and focus on other isotopes.
  • Some participants suggest that measuring civilization advancement based on the energy produced from deuterium rather than the amount of deuterium itself may be more practical.
  • There is a discussion about the potential future of energy creation methods that may surpass fusion, indicating uncertainty about the long-term relevance of deuterium cultivation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the feasibility of a civilization hierarchy based on deuterium, with some supporting the idea and others challenging its validity. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the practicality and relevance of such a hierarchy.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the current lack of controlled fusion technology for deuterium, the ambiguity surrounding the use of tritium in fusion reactors, and the potential for future energy technologies that may not rely on deuterium.

hyperiontorus
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Summary:: Similar to the Kardashev Scale, create a means for forming a hierarchy of civilization based on deuterium access.

I'm interested in the fusion process using deuterium, and I've noted that it remains (to this day) the greatest source of energy of any reactions. Because of this reason, I want to evaluate how to create a hierarchy of civilizations based on deuterium cultivation. Is it possible to base a hierarchy of civilizations based on accumulation or fusions of cultivated deuterium?
 
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hyperiontorus said:
I'm interested in the fusion process using deuterium, and I've noted that it remains (to this day) the greatest source of energy of any reactions. Because of this reason, I want to evaluate how to create a hierarchy of civilizations based on deuterium cultivation. Is it possible to base a hierarchy of civilizations based on accumulation or fusions of cultivated deuterium?
No, it isn´ t.

To this day, we cannot have controlled fusion of deuterium.
If someone did have a "handwave" way of controlled fusion, protium would be much more abundant than deuterium.
It is plausible to have a device that can usably fuse deuterium but not protium. But we do not have such a device this day.
 
snorkack said:
No, it isn´ t.

To this day, we cannot have controlled fusion of deuterium.
If someone did have a "handwave" way of controlled fusion, protium would be much more abundant than deuterium.
It is plausible to have a device that can usably fuse deuterium but not protium. But we do not have such a device this day.

Interesting. I'm basing my orders of civilization upon deuterium because it provides a middle-ground of fusion between hyrdrogen+1 and helium+2. According to Christopher Barnatt here: https://explainingthefuture.com/helium3.html, in the section topic titled, "Helium-3 and Nuclear Fusion," "In current nuclear fusion reactors, the hydrogen isotopes tritium and deuterium are used as the fuel, with atomic energy released when their nuclei fuse to create helium and a neutron."

Also, this article discusses a new patent for such a "device" that can fuse deuterium and tritium: https://marketmadhouse.com/is-the-us-navy-trying-to-patent-a-fusion-reactor/#:~:text=Theoretically%2C%20the%20device%20could%20achieve%20thermonuclear%20fusion%20by,device%20could%20generate%20one%20trillion%20watts%20of%20power
 
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hyperiontorus said:
In current nuclear fusion reactors, the hydrogen isotopes tritium and deuterium are used as the fuel
That is generally false. Most of them use helium, regular hydrogen and/or deuterium. The reactors focus on studying the plasma, which you can do without tritium. Adding tritium makes the reactor vessel radioactive, so maintenance becomes much more difficult. The studies are done with a potential future D-T fusion reactor in mind, sure. But very few reactors actually use tritium.

He-3 plus deuterium is not aneutronic as the D-D reaction produces neutrons.
hyperiontorus said:
Because of this reason, I want to evaluate how to create a hierarchy of civilizations based on deuterium cultivation. Is it possible to base a hierarchy of civilizations based on accumulation or fusions of cultivated deuterium?
No one stops you from making up categories, just don't expect others to use these categories.
 
hyperiontorus said:
I want to evaluate how to create a hierarchy of civilizations based on deuterium cultivation.
kg/capita/year?

Deuterium is a thing which actually has a bunch of uses. I think your fiction would need to be based on what those fictional civilisations used the deuterium for. If it's for energy production, why not just go on the amount of energy it is used to generate, rather than the input material?
 
It's a bit of a specific thing to measure, right? Basically through modern day we cultivate no deuterium for fusion energy. In a hundred years we might have a better method of energy creation than fusion that involves deuterium.

Total electricity generation per person or something like that seems straightforward and more flexible.
 

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