Liapunov’s Second Method proof

  • Thread starter Thread starter member 731016
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Positive
Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around proving conditions for a function to be positive definite, specifically focusing on the parameters a, b, and c in the context of Liapunov's Second Method. The original poster attempts to manipulate the function V(x,y) and explore its properties.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants suggest defining a ratio k = x/y to analyze the function V(ky,y) and its non-negativity. There are attempts to rewrite the function in alternative forms and explore the implications of the quadratic formula. Questions arise about deriving specific expressions and ensuring conditions for positive definiteness.

Discussion Status

Participants are exploring various methods to approach the proof, with some offering algebraic manipulations and others discussing the properties of matrices related to the function. There is a mix of interpretations and suggestions, but no explicit consensus has been reached.

Contextual Notes

Assumptions about the parameters a, b, and c being real numbers are noted, along with the requirement for a to be greater than zero and the condition 4ac - b^2 to be greater than zero for the function to be positive definite.

member 731016
Homework Statement
Please see below
Relevant Equations
Please see below
For this theorem,
1716878000582.png

I'm trying to prove why ## a > 0## and ##4ac - b^2 > 0## for the function to be positive definite.

My working is, ##V(x,y) = x(ax + by) + cy^2## (I try on write the function in alternative forms)

##V(x,y) = ax^2 + y(bx + cy)##

However, does anybody please know where to go from here?

Thanks!
 
Physics news on Phys.org
I suggest that you define ##k = x/y## (the case ##y = 0## trivially gives ##a > 0## as a requirement) and require that ##V(ky,y) \geq 0## regardless of ##k##.
 
  • Like
  • Love
Likes   Reactions: member 731016 and MatinSAR
Orodruin said:
I suggest that you define ##k = x/y## (the case ##y = 0## trivially gives ##a > 0## as a requirement) and require that ##V(ky,y) \geq 0## regardless of ##k##.
Thank you for your reply @Orodruin!

I think I also see another method we could use for the proof.

Wolfram Alpha tells me that another equivalent way of writing ##V(x,y)## other than the two previous ways I have done, is

##V(x,y) = \frac{(2ax + by)^2}{4a} - \frac{b^2y^2 - 4acy^2}{4a}##

However, does anybody please know to derive this expression? It seems to work when I expand it, however, I have never seen this sort of expression before derived from first principles. That expression also neatly solves the proof by making sure the second term is always positive ##\frac{y^2(b^2 - 4ac)}{2a}## so that negatives cancels which occurs when ##b^2 - 4ac <0## and ##a > 0##.

Thanks!
 
looks like some sort application of the quadratic formula, 4ac -b^2 gives it away.
The algebra can be done by setting the equation equal to zero (subtract V(x,y) from both sides and treat as part of the c term), applying quadratic formula, then set it equal to V(x,y)
 
  • Love
Likes   Reactions: member 731016
Complete the square in x.
 
  • Love
Likes   Reactions: member 731016
The matrix representing this function is: [a,b/2];[b/2,c]
A matrix is positive definite whenever <Av,v>>0 when v is a vector different than zero.
And that happens when det(A)>0 and trace(A)>=0.

the determinant is ac-b^2/4>0 and the trace is a+c>0.

if a<0 then because ac>0, also c<0 which is impossible since then we would get: a+c<0, contrary to the fact that the trace is positive.

But in order to know all the above, you really need to know linear algebra 2.
 
  • Like
  • Love
Likes   Reactions: WWGD and member 731016
BTW, one should assume obviously that a,b,c are real numbers.
 
  • Love
Likes   Reactions: member 731016

Similar threads

Replies
2
Views
1K
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
Replies
8
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
1K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
2K
  • · Replies 18 ·
Replies
18
Views
3K
Replies
2
Views
1K