Lidar and magnetism detection system

[baronvonstiglminer]

TL;DR

help with a new aircraft detection system

I'm working on an entirely new system to replace radar using Lidar and magnetic (not electro magnetic) field detection to get around 5th and 6th gen fighter stealth technology. i need costs the math and science behind it and any thing the would hinder in its effectiveness. also i need the info by Sunday.

 

[berkeman]

Welcome to PF.

also i need the info by Sunday.

LOL.

Please show us what you have found so far in your searching on this subject. It's important that you show us your efforts before we try to clear up any specific questions you have.

Also, what is your technical background so far? Do you have a technical degree, or are you still in university? Or are you still in high school wanting to do this project? Is this project for schoolwork?

EDIT -- I see from your Profile/About page now that you are currently in high school. What math and Physics courses have you taken so far?

 

[baronvonstiglminer]

Welcome to PF.


LOL.

Please show us what you have found so far in your searching on this subject. It's important that you show us your efforts before we try to clear up any specific questions you have.

Also, what is your technical background so far? Do you have a technical degree, or are you still in university? Or are you still in high school wanting to do this project? Is this project for schoolwork?

I'm in high school and this for an internship application for an internship at Aberdeen proving grounds research laboratory. this is what i have so far for a overall summary, I'm not super familiar with the intricate details if Lidar. Magnetometers (Magnetic Anomaly Detectors - MAD): Sensitive devices used to detect minute changes in Earth's magnetic field caused by metal objects (such as submarines and aircraft). Used in military applications (anti-submarine warfare) and by civilian authorities for surveillance and resource exploration. Limitation: The effectiveness of MAD is range-dependent—most work best at close range (a few kilometers). High-speed, high-altitude aircraft are harder to detect magnetically. Passive Magnetic Detection: Since aircraft naturally interact with Earth's magnetic field, passive detection methods can track subtle disturbances, but this requires highly sensitive equipment and specific conditions. Electromagnetic Signature Detection: While not purely magnetic, emissions from onboard electronics and wiring can provide clues to an aircraft's presence if not properly shielded.

 

[berkeman]

Thanks, that info helps a lot.

Yeah, magnetic detection is very range limited, so probably of no help (the fighter jet has already switched to guns at that close range and you are dead). Also, I don't know how much ferrous metal is used in the newer generations of fighter aircraft, but probably not much. That might be a good thing for you to research to add to your paper.

Electromagnetic Signature Detection: While not purely magnetic, emissions from onboard electronics and wiring can provide clues to an aircraft's presence if not properly shielded.

You're not going to be picking up much in terms of emissions, and that is on purpose of course. Can you talk a bit about all the stealth technologies built into the latest generation of fighter aircraft?

BTW, since this thread is for schoolwork, it may get moved to our schoolwork forums at some point. It's probably okay here in the technical Aero forum for now, as long as all responders keep in mind that this is for schoolwork so we cannot be giving direct answers (per the PF schoolwork rules).

 

[baronvonstiglminer]

Thanks, that info helps a lot.

Yeah, magnetic detection is very range limited, so probably of no help (the fighter jet has already switched to guns at that close range and you are dead). Also, I don't know how much ferrous metal is used in the newer generations of fighter aircraft, but probably not much. That might be a good thing for you to research to add to your paper.


You're not going to be picking up much in terms of emissions, and that is on purpose of course. Can you talk a bit about all the stealth technologies built into the latest generation of fighter aircraft?

BTW, since this thread is for schoolwork, it may get moved to our schoolwork forums at some point. It's probably okay here in the technical Aero forum for now, as long as all responders keep in mind that this is for schoolwork so we cannot be giving direct answers (per the PF schoolwork rules).

thank you

 

[Flyboy]

LIDAR is an interesting angle to take, but it faces some issues that may or may not make it unsuitable for the use you’re looking at:

• For starters, how well does LIDAR work in bad weather? Rain, snow, fog, smoke, dust, etc. These are all things that a skilled pilot can and will make use of when attempting to evade detection if it has even a minor impact on the effectiveness.
• Counter-detection: a LIDAR search unit is basically broadcasting its location to anyone with an appropriate sensor. Radar faces much the same challenge, but most modern fighter radars have a few tricks like frequency hopping, active electronically scanned arrays, and several other techniques that I don’t fully understand, which combine to make a radar that is quite difficult to detect. Ground based radars aren’t as trick-filled but still have to consider being detected, geolocated, and engaged by standoff weapons.
• How effective is such a unit at actually detecting a fighter sized target at long range? How easy is it for an opponent to get lost in the sensor noise?
• Are you simply detecting that there’s a hostile stealth aircraft in the area, or are you attempting to generate an engagement-quality track that you can use to fire a missile? If it’s the latter, you may have difficulty tracking more than one target at a time. Modern engagement radars, although susceptible to stealth, can track and engage multiple targets simultaneously with a single radar.

 

[FactChecker]

That's a very interesting topic. You can learn a lot from it.

I don't want to discourage you, but here are some things you should be aware of:

1) Many sensor systems combine inputs from several sensors, both local and communicated on networks, to identify and track threats.

2) This subject can depend heavily on classified information. And if you discover something, your entire project can become classified in a second so that even you can not look at any of it. You might not even be allowed to mention it to anyone. I doubt that you will have a problem with this unless you already have access to classified data to use.

3) The basic physics of Lidar versus radar and optical cameras greatly influences the use of each. Rain, clouds, glare from the sun, scanning ability, etc. These are interesting things to consider.

 

[Klystron]

Many sensor systems combine inputs from several sensors, both local and communicated on networks, to identify and track threats.

If you find your research limited by security classifications and proprietary manufacturer data, or need an introductory section, consider an historical approach.

WWII ended in 1945 with RADAR (Radio Detection and Ranging) still in formative, but highly effective stage, while Vietnam War ended in 1975 50 years ago with LiDAR, low-light optics, track-while-scan*, mass** and audio detectors, and electronic countermeasure (ECM) technology established new technology.

WWII used human information networks including trained aircraft spotters equipped with binoculars and communication radios to detect and report enemy aircraft supplemented by ground based primitive RADAR. Vietnam War used these methods augmented with infrared trackers, low-light optics and audio detection.

The lesson: practical anti-aircraft methods involve diverse systems pooling detection information to control centers, also the basis for civilian air traffic control.

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*track-while-scan refers to passively tracking aircraft from EM emissions both internal to the aircraft and from active RADAR scans illuminating aircraft.

**mass detection may include magnetometers near the Earth's magnetic field. Audio detectors listen for acoustic disturbance in fluids, air and water, the latter with acronym SONAR.