Lie derivative versus covariant derivative

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the comparison between the Lie derivative and the covariant derivative of vector fields on smooth manifolds, particularly in the context of Riemannian manifolds. Participants explore the definitions, properties, and implications of these derivatives, as well as the nature of flows generated by vector fields.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that the Lie derivative provides the derivative of a vector field in the direction of another vector field and questions whether it yields the same result as the covariant derivative in Riemannian manifolds.
  • Another participant argues that the Lie derivative is not linear over functions in its first argument, suggesting it cannot be a connection.
  • There is a discussion about the flow generated by a vector field, with one participant asserting it generates a local one-parameter group of diffeomorphisms, while another questions this by referencing a potential counterexample involving a punctured real line.
  • One participant expresses confusion regarding their reading of a book that claims the flow is a group of global diffeomorphisms and seeks clarification on whether a specific equation represents a diffeomorphism.
  • There is a reiteration of the equation for the flow, with a participant questioning its status as a diffeomorphism and suggesting it may only be local if coordinates are used.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants exhibit disagreement regarding the nature of flows generated by vector fields, specifically whether they can be considered global diffeomorphisms. There is also contention about the properties of the Lie derivative and its relationship to connections.

Contextual Notes

Some assumptions about the definitions of diffeomorphisms and the properties of the Lie derivative are not fully explored, leading to potential ambiguities in the discussion. The implications of local versus global diffeomorphisms remain unresolved.

RedX
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When calculating the derivative of a vector field X at a point p of a smooth manifold M, one uses the Lie derivative, which gives the derivative of X in the direction of another vector field Y at the same point p of the manifold.

If the manifold is a Riemannian manifold (that is, equipped with a metric tensor), then there is a natural connection called the Levi-Civita connection that also tells you the derivative of a vector field X at a point p of a smooth manifold.

Do these two methods of calculating the derivative give the same result?

And why is the Lie derivative so complicated? It seems the reason is that you need to define a diffeomorphism f: M --> M (an active transformation) because doing so will induce a transformation between tangent spaces: f*: T(M) --> T(M), and to compare 2 vectors at different points you first need to bring one vector to the other through f* so that you can subtract them. This diffeomorphism f is provided by a "flow", which is induced by Y. So what is so special about a diffeomorphism generated by a vector field Y? Why not just use any diffeomorphism to define the derivative, and not necessarily one generated by a vector field?

Also, is there an easy way to see that a flow generated by a vector field is a diffeomorphism?
 
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The Lie derivative is not linear over functions in the first argument, thus it can't be a connection of any kind.

For the flow question, it generates a local one-parameter group of diffeomorphisms (this is existence and uniqueness of linear ODEs). There's no reason to expect that it gives a global diffeomorphism (to see this, punch a hole in the real line and point your arrows at it).
 
zhentil said:
For the flow question, it generates a local one-parameter group of diffeomorphisms (this is existence and uniqueness of linear ODEs). There's no reason to expect that it gives a global diffeomorphism (to see this, punch a hole in the real line and point your arrows at it).

Maybe I'm reading my book wrong, but it claims that a flow is a group of global diffeomorphisms.

The flow \sigma(t,x), where t is the group parameter and x is a point on the manifold, is given by:

\sigma^\mu(t,x)=e^{tX^\mu(x)}x^\mu

where X^\mu(x) is the vector field at the point x in the \mu direction.

Is this equation a diffeomorphism? It seems to be just f(x)=eg(x)x, which seems like a diffeomorphism.
 
RedX said:
Maybe I'm reading my book wrong, but it claims that a flow is a group of global diffeomorphisms.

The flow \sigma(t,x), where t is the group parameter and x is a point on the manifold, is given by:

\sigma^\mu(t,x)=e^{tX^\mu(x)}x^\mu

where X^\mu(x) is the vector field at the point x in the \mu direction.

Is this equation a diffeomorphism? It seems to be just f(x)=eg(x)x, which seems like a diffeomorphism.
If your book is using coordinates, it certainly seems local.
 

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