How Do We Visualize the Manifold Structure of a Lie Group?

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SUMMARY

The discussion focuses on determining the manifold structure and global properties of Lie groups, specifically addressing the challenges in visualizing these structures. A Lie group G is defined as a differentiable manifold that also functions as a group, with properties such as connectedness, simple connectedness, and compactness. Examples include the Lie group U(1), which is a circle, and SO(3), which can be represented as a filled sphere with antipodes identified. The conversation emphasizes the necessity of understanding representation theory, algebraic topology, differential geometry, and cohomology theory to fully grasp the manifold structure of Lie groups.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of differentiable manifolds and their properties.
  • Familiarity with Lie groups and their definitions, including connectedness and compactness.
  • Knowledge of representation theory and its relevance to Lie groups.
  • Basic concepts of algebraic topology and differential geometry.
NEXT STEPS
  • Study the properties of differentiable manifolds in detail.
  • Research the specific characteristics of the Lie groups U(1) and SO(3).
  • Learn about the application of representation theory in understanding Lie groups.
  • Explore the fundamentals of algebraic topology and its connection to manifold structures.
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Mathematicians, theoretical physicists, and students in advanced mathematics or physics courses focusing on Lie groups, differential geometry, and algebraic topology.

Jason Bennett
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Homework Statement
Determining the manifold picture of a lie group to see its global properties
Relevant Equations
see below
1) How do we determine a Lie group's global properties when the manifold that it represents is not immediately obvious?

Allow me to give the definitions I am working with.

A Lie group G is a differentiable manifold G which is also a group, such that the group multiplication
and the map sending g ∈ G to its inverse g−1 ∈ G, are differentiable (C∞) maps.

As a Lie group is a manifold, one can parametrize the elements g in a small neighbor- hood of the identity e of G, by n real parameters {x1, . . . , xn}. This is simply written as g = g(x1, . . . , xn) and the parametrization is usually chosen in such a way that e = g(0, . . . , 0). The number of independent real parameters (n) is called the dimension of the Lie group.

A Lie group G is connected iff \forall g_1, g_2 \in G there exists a continuous curve connecting the two, i.e. there exists only one connected component.

A Lie group G is simply connected (if all closed curves on the manifold picture of G) can be contracted to a point.

A Lie group is compact if there are no elements infinitely far away fro the others.

The Lie group U(1) is quite easily identified as a circle in its manifold picture. This is connected, not simply connected, and compact.

However, SO(3) can (apparently) be viewed as manifold as such: a filled sphere of fixed radius, with antipodes identified. Once that has been realized, determining the global properties are straight forward. Getting there is another question, and I believe related to answering...

2) How do we algorithmically determine the parameter space of a Lie group – thus seeing it as a manifold?

For instance, for SU(2), we can write the matrix elements as complex, or decomposed with reals + i(reals), and use the det = 1 condition to determine that the Lie group is 3-deimensional. The step from 3-dimensional to a 3-sphere is not clear to me.
 
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I (still) don't see how you get to a Lie group without defining the topological space.
Jason Bennett said:
How do we determine a Lie group's global properties when the manifold that it represents is not immediately obvious?
How do we know it's a Lie group?

Here are some bijections for ##SU(2)##:
https://www.physicsforums.com/insights/journey-manifold-su2mathbbc-part/
 
Well, if you're told,e.g., SO(3) is a Lie group, you are not explicitly told the topology or manifold structure.
 
WWGD said:
Well, if you're told,e.g., SO(3) is a Lie group, you are not explicitly told the topology or manifold structure.
Sure I am. ##SO(3)## defines the manifold, the set of points, and the requirement of analytic group operations the differential and therewith topological structure.
 
fresh_42 said:
Sure I am. ##SO(3)## defines the manifold, the set of points, and the requirement of analytic group operations the differential and therewith topological structure.
It may be given , e.g., in terms of one of many representations. How do you then recover it all. Or just described in words as a collection of rotations.
 
As soon as you call something a Lie group, as soon do you have to define space and structure. Otherwise it is not a Lie group, so it is what? The question is completely underdetermined. It is as if you asked: "How can I see a ring is an integral domain if I haven't given the ring?" That's nonsense: Let's talk about *** but I will not define ***.

Edit: O.k., then the answer is representation theory, algebraic topology, differential geometry, and cohomology theory. Nothing more to add.
 
But I understood you said the topology was stated explicitly. But it is not always the case; you need to make it up, figure it out by yourself. At any rate, we may just have different assumptions on what we mean here on the object defined, or, as someone famous said, on "What is is".
 
Let's just leave it at Kartofel, Kartofeln ?
 
Double "f", and yes, we need answers from the OP. I find it even difficult to "see" whether a subgroup is closed or not.
 
  • #10
fresh_42 said:
Double "f", and yes, we need answers from the OP. I find it even difficult to "see" whether a subgroup is closed or not.
Kartoffel/Kartofffel? Or Kartuffel/Kartoffel?
 
  • #11
The French and Austrians call them Earth apples.
 
  • #12
C'est derriere: Quest'ce q'on va fair avec les pommes de terre D'Anglaterre?
 
  • #13
I am quite confused by your concern about the background topological space. Can you explain further? Please keep in mind I am very new to this area.
 
  • #14
Jason Bennett said:
I am quite confused by your concern about the background topological space. Can you explain further? Please keep in mind I am very new to this area.
So, you are told "G is a Lie group" and asked to determine its manifold structure? Just want to make sure we have the question down correctly.
 
  • #15
Jason Bennett said:
Homework Statement: Determining the manifold picture of a lie group to see its global properties
Homework Equations: see below

1) How do we determine a Lie group's global properties when the manifold that it represents is not immediately obvious?

Allow me to give the definitions I am working with.

A Lie group G is a differentiable manifold G which is also a group, such that the group multiplication
and the map sending g ∈ G to its inverse g−1 ∈ G, are differentiable (C∞) maps.

As a Lie group is a manifold, one can parametrize the elements g in a small neighbor- hood of the identity e of G, by n real parameters {x1, . . . , xn}. This is simply written as g = g(x1, . . . , xn) and the parametrization is usually chosen in such a way that e = g(0, . . . , 0). The number of independent real parameters (n) is called the dimension of the Lie group.

A Lie group G is connected iff \forall g_1, g_2 \in G there exists a continuous curve connecting the two, i.e. there exists only one connected component.

A Lie group G is simply connected (if all closed curves on the manifold picture of G) can be contracted to a point.

A Lie group is compact if there are no elements infinitely far away fro the others.

The Lie group U(1) is quite easily identified as a circle in its manifold picture. This is connected, not simply connected, and compact.

However, SO(3) can (apparently) be viewed as manifold as such: a filled sphere of fixed radius, with antipodes identified. Once that has been realized, determining the global properties are straight forward. Getting there is another question, and I believe related to answering...

2) How do we algorithmically determine the parameter space of a Lie group – thus seeing it as a manifold?

For instance, for SU(2), we can write the matrix elements as complex, or decomposed with reals + i(reals), and use the det = 1 condition to determine that the Lie group is 3-deimensional. The step from 3-dimensional to a 3-sphere is not clear to me.
WWGD said:
So, you are told "G is a Lie group" and asked to determine its manifold structure? Just want to make sure we have the question down correctly.

Precisely!
 

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