Linear Algebra - Inner Product problem

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a problem in linear algebra concerning inner products in a vector space. Participants are exploring whether the statement "If (u, v) = 0 for every v ∈ V such that v ≠ u, then u = 0" can be proven or disproven. The scope includes theoretical reasoning and mathematical justification related to inner product spaces.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that the statement could be disproven by using v = 0, but expresses uncertainty about this approach.
  • Another participant questions whether there is a typo in the original statement, proposing that it should state (u, v) = 0 for every v ≠ 0, leading to the conclusion that u must be 0.
  • A further contribution discusses the implications of (u, v) = 0, noting that it indicates u and v are perpendicular, and questions how a vector u could be perpendicular to all other vectors.
  • One participant reflects on the inner product axioms, particularly that (u, u) = 0 if and only if u = 0, suggesting that proving (u, u) = 0 could suffice to show u = 0.
  • Another participant mentions the linearity of the inner product as a potential tool for proving the statement, indicating a possible direction for reasoning.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the interpretation of the original statement and whether it can be proven or disproven. There is no consensus on the correct approach or the validity of the initial claim.

Contextual Notes

Participants assume a real, finite-dimensional vector space, and there are discussions about the implications of inner product properties, such as linearity and the definition of orthogonality. The conversation reflects uncertainty regarding the original statement's wording and its implications.

RikaWolf
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Prove/Disprove - Inner Product topic
I need help to know if I'm on the right track:
Prove/Disprove the following:
Let u ∈ V . If (u, v) = 0 for every v ∈ V such that v ≠ u, then u = 0.
(V is a vector-space)
I think I need to disprove by using v = 0, however I'm not sure.
 
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RikaWolf said:
Summary: Prove/Disprove - Inner Product topic

I need help to know if I'm on the right track:
Prove/Disprove the following:
Let u ∈ V . If (u, v) = 0 for every v ∈ V such that v ≠ u, then u = 0.
(V is a vector-space)
I think I need to disprove by using v = 0, however I'm not sure.
I assume you have a real, finite dimensional vector space here.

You are right, ##(u,0)=0## is always true for any ##u##, which makes me think there is a typo. The condition is probably ##(u,v)=0## for every ##v\neq 0##, then ##u=0##.

What does it mean, that ##(u,v)=0## for all ##v\neq 0## and what does it mean if you chose a basis and express ##u## according to this basis?
 
fresh_42 said:
I assume you have a real, finite dimensional vector space here.

You are right, ##(u,0)=0## is always true for any ##u##, which makes me think there is a typo. The condition is probably ##(u,v)=0## for every ##v\neq 0##, then ##u=0##.

What does it mean, that ##(u,v)=0## for all ##v\neq 0## and what does it mean if you chose a basis and express ##u## according to this basis?
Well then, assuming v= {b1...bn}, u={a1...an} there could still be a (u,v)=0 when v= {-an...-a} and u isn't 0
 
##(u,v)=0## means that ##u## and ##v## are perpendicular to each other. Now how can a vector ##u## be perpendicular to all the rest? Have you had the Gram Schmidt orthogonalization algorithm in your course, yet?
 
RikaWolf said:
Summary: Prove/Disprove - Inner Product topic

I need help to know if I'm on the right track:
Prove/Disprove the following:
Let u ∈ V . If (u, v) = 0 for every v ∈ V such that v ≠ u, then u = 0.
(V is a vector-space)
I think I need to disprove by using v = 0, however I'm not sure.

Let me add to the above by explaining how I thought about this:

First, why are we not given that ##(u, u) = 0##? Well, one of the inner product axioms is that ##(u, u) = 0## iff ##u =0##.

Now, that gives me an idea of how to prove that ##u = 0##. If I could show that ##(u, u) = 0## then that would be enough.

So, how to show that ##(u, u) = 0##?

First, I can see an easy way that is a bit of a cheat. So, if I don't use that, what else can I do?

Well, there's the linearity of the inner product: ##(u, v+w) = (u, v) + (u, w)##. Perhaps I could use that ...
 
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