Linear fractional transformation

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around linear fractional transformations, specifically how to map a circle onto a line and vice versa. Participants explore the conditions and methods for selecting points for these transformations, as well as the implications of these mappings in the context of complex analysis.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about determining a linear fractional transformation for a circle mapping onto a line, noting they understand mappings between circles and lines but struggle with the specifics.
  • Another participant mentions that a line can be viewed as a circle passing through infinity, suggesting a method involving three distinct points on the circle and their corresponding points on the line.
  • There is a discussion about sending points to infinity, with one participant mistakenly suggesting sending two points to infinity, which is corrected by others who clarify that only one point can be sent to infinity in a linear fractional transformation.
  • Participants discuss the importance of fixing orientation and the selection of a third point on the target line, with one suggesting the point could be 1 on the real axis.
  • One participant shares their attempt at a transformation and questions the correctness of their answer compared to a book's answer, indicating uncertainty about the mapping process.
  • Another participant clarifies that to send a line to a circle, three arbitrary distinct points on the line should be chosen to map to three distinct points on the circle.
  • There is a mathematical challenge raised regarding the determination of whether -1 is on a specified line, leading to a clarification of the conditions for a point to lie on that line.
  • One participant asserts that there is no linear fractional function that can map a line onto a circle or vice versa, unless the circle is a point, citing properties of convexity.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of understanding and agreement on the methods for mapping circles and lines. There is no consensus on the correctness of specific transformations or the implications of convexity in relation to these mappings.

Contextual Notes

Participants exhibit uncertainty regarding the selection of points for transformations and the implications of sending points to infinity. The discussion also highlights the need for clarity on mathematical definitions and properties related to linear fractional transformations.

sweetvirgogirl
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sooo ...
i am kind of clueless about how to determine a linear fractional transformation for a circle that maps on to a line or vice versa ...


like i do *kinda* get how to map a circle on to a circle ... or a line on to a line ...
 
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Well, a line is just a circle that passes through the point at infinity! So...
 
Hurkyl said:
Well, a line is just a circle that passes through the point at infinity! So...
the way prof showed it in class ... he said pick three points on the circle and send it to three points on the line (or vice versa if we are trying to map a line to a cirle) ... but i am not sure how do i know what those three points are going to map to ...

on a circle |z| = 1, we could send i to infinity and -i to infinity and then the third point? maybe i am taking a wrong approach ... or maybe the prof didnt mean to tell us to take this approach and i misunderstood him
 
sweetvirgogirl said:
on a circle |z| = 1, we could send i to infinity and -i to infinity and then the third point? maybe i am taking a wrong approach ... or maybe the prof didnt mean to tell us to take this approach and i misunderstood him

A linear fractional transformation sends only one point to infinity, you can't send two there. You have to take 3 distinct points on your circle and map them to 3 distinct points on your line.
 
shmoe said:
A linear fractional transformation sends only one point to infinity, you can't send two there. You have to take 3 distinct points on your circle and map them to 3 distinct points on your line.
oops typo ... i meant we could send i to infinity and -i to - infinity and then the third point?

(-infinity and infinity are different, right?)
 
No, infinity and -infinity are the same.
 
AKG said:
No, infinity and -infinity are the same.
woopsie ... let's restart then ...

I send i to infinity, -i to zero ... what about the third point?
it has to do something with fixing orientation, right? how does that work?

(like i know the third point can not be totally arbitrary like the first two points were, right?)
 
The third point just has to be on the 'target' line. If you're going for the real axis, you could take the third point to be 1. Have you seen the cross ratio?

Different choices of the third point on the real axis will get different transformations, but will still send your circle to the real axis.
 
shmoe said:
The third point just has to be on the 'target' line. If you're going for the real axis, you could take the third point to be 1. Have you seen the cross ratio?

Different choices of the third point on the real axis will get different transformations, but will still send your circle to the real axis.
no we haven't covered cross ratio in class yet.

so i *sorta* get how to send a circle to a line ... ...
the circle |z| = 1 and the line Re((1+i)w) = 0 ... so i sent 1 to infinity, -1 to 0 and i = -1 and i came up with i*(z+1)/(z-1) ...
the book has the answer as (1-i)*(z+1)/(z-1)
i want to make sure my answer is right ...

also... to send a line to a circle ... i pick three arbitrary distinct points on the line and send them to three distinct points on the circle?

also ... if you have free time and you don't mind talking to a stranger over yahoo/aim ... please let me know ... thanks! :)
 
  • #10
sweetvirgogirl said:
so i *sorta* get how to send a circle to a line ... ...
the circle |z| = 1 and the line Re((1+i)w) = 0 ... so i sent 1 to infinity, -1 to 0 and i = -1 and i came up with i*(z+1)/(z-1) ...
the book has the answer as (1-i)*(z+1)/(z-1)
i want to make sure my answer is right ...

-1 is not on that line.

sweetvirgogirl said:
also... to send a line to a circle ... i pick three arbitrary distinct points on the line and send them to three distinct points on the circle?

Yes.

sweetvirgogirl said:
also ... if you have free time and you don't mind talking to a stranger over yahoo/aim ... please let me know ... thanks! :)

I don't have any chat programs, sorry.
 
  • #11
shmoe said:
-1 is not on that line.
how exactly do you determine that? coz the way i saw it ... -1 was on the line ... maybe i need some rest
 
  • #12
If -1 were on that line, then -1 would be one of the w such that Re((1+i)w) = 0, i.e. we would get:

Re((1+i)(-1)) = 0
Re(-1-i) = 0
-1 = 0
 
  • #13
There is no linear fractional function that maps a line on to a circle, or a circle on to a line, (unless the circle is a point), since linear fractional function preserves convexity. i.e., image of any convex set is convex , and the inverse image of any convex set is convex. See Stephen Boyd, Lieven Vandenberghe: Convex Optimization, Page 39
 
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