Linear Independence to Determining Vectors' Dependence"

  • Thread starter Thread starter Gregg
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Linear
Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of linear independence in vector spaces, specifically examining whether certain sets of vectors are linearly independent given that three vectors, a, b, and c, are known to be independent.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the application of determinant calculations to assess linear independence, questioning the validity of using coefficient matrices. There is also discussion on the definitions of linear dependence and independence, with attempts to apply these definitions to specific vector sets.

Discussion Status

Some participants have provided insights into the definitions and implications of linear dependence and independence, while others have shared specific examples and calculations. There is an ongoing exploration of the definitions and methods rather than a clear consensus on the outcomes for the vector sets discussed.

Contextual Notes

Participants are navigating the nuances of definitions and methods related to linear independence, with some expressing uncertainty about the uniqueness of solutions in certain cases. There is a focus on understanding rather than merely applying techniques.

Gregg
Messages
452
Reaction score
0
linear independence

Homework Statement



given that a,b and c are linearly independent vectors determine if the following vectors are linearly independent.

a) a,0

b) a+b, b+c, c+a

c) a+2b+c, a-b-c, 5a+b-c

The Attempt at a Solution



I'm not sure how to tackle the question in this form.

Edit:

a) a=0a independent

[itex] \text{Det}\left[\left(<br /> \begin{array}{ccc}<br /> 1 & 0 & 1 \\<br /> 1 & 1 & 0 \\<br /> 0 & 1 & 1<br /> \end{array}<br /> \right)\right]=2[/itex]

independent

(c)
[itex] \text{Det}\left[\left(<br /> \begin{array}{ccc}<br /> 1 & 1 & 5 \\<br /> 2 & -1 & 1 \\<br /> 1 & -1 & -1<br /> \end{array}<br /> \right)\right]=0[/itex] independent

Is it ok to use those vector co-efficients in a matrix like that?
 
Last edited:
Physics news on Phys.org
Where'd you get you those co-efficient matrices from?
What is the definition of vectors being linearly dependent?
 
That actually works. For example, if you row-reduce the matrix in c), you get
[tex]\left(\begin{array}{ccc} 1 & 0 & 2 \\ 0 & 1 & 3 \\ 0 & 0 & 0\end{array}\right)[/tex]

This says that c1 = -2c3, c2 = -3c3, and c3 = c3. If you take c3 = 1, then c1 = -2 and c2 = -3. That linear combination of the vectors given in part c results in a sum of 0, thus demonstrating that the set is linearly dependent. Note spelling of "dependent" Gregg. Similar for independent.
 
Mark44 said:
That actually works. For example, if you Note spelling of "dependent" Gregg. Similar for independent.

whoops
 
I think it is always better to use the basic definitions than try to memorize a specific method without understanding it.

The definition of "dependent" for a set of vectors [itex]\left{v_1, v_2, \cdot\cdot\cdot v_n}[/quote] is that there are numbers, [itex]a_1, a_2, \cdot\cdot\cdot a_n[/itex], <b>not</b> all 0, such that [math]a_1v_1+ a_2v_2+ \cdot\cdot\cdot a_nv_n= 0[/itex].

For the first problem, { a, 0}, take [itex]a_0= 0[/itex], [itex]a_1= 1[/itex]: [itex]a_0a+ a_10= 0(a)+ 1(0)= 0[/itex].

For (b), with a+b, b+c, c+a, if [itex]a_1(a+b)+ a_2(b+ c)+ a_3(c+a)= 0[/itex] then [itex](a_1+ a_3)a+ (a_1+ a_2)b+ (a_2+ a_3)c= 0[/itex]. Since a, b, and c are independent, we must have [itex]a_1+ a_3= 0[/itex], [itex]a_1+ a_2= 0[/itex], and [itex]a_2+ a_3= 0[/itex]. Obviously, [itex]a_0= a_1= a_2= 0[/itex] satisfies that but is it the only solution?
 
I couldn't agree with HallsOfIvy more, in what he said about the importance of understanding definitions as opposed to memorizing a technique without understanding why you are doing it. To often students get tangled up in the details of calculating a determinant or row reducing a matrix without understanding what it means that the matrix determinant is zero or why the matrix should be row reduced.

The definition of linear independence of a set of vectors is stated very simply, but there is a subtlety to it that escapes many students. The only thing that distinguishes a set of linearly independent vectors from a set that is linearly dependent is whether the equation [itex]c_1 v_1 + c_2 v_2 + c_3 v_3 + ... + c_n v_n + = 0[/itex] has only one solution (independent vectors) or an infinite number of solutions (dependent vectors).
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
4K
  • · Replies 19 ·
Replies
19
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 32 ·
2
Replies
32
Views
3K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
3K
Replies
17
Views
3K
Replies
56
Views
6K