Linking current-carrying wires to magnets

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between current-carrying wires (specifically solenoids) and magnets, exploring the underlying principles of magnetism, the role of electron movement, and the nature of magnetic fields. Participants inquire about the connections between these concepts and seek clarification on the mechanisms involved.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how current-carrying wires relate to magnets, noting that magnets have stable magnetic fields due to electron spin alignment.
  • Another participant asserts that magnetic fields are caused by the movement of electric charge, suggesting a parallel between the circular motion of electrons in magnets and solenoids.
  • A participant seeks clarification on whether magnets exhibit magnetic properties solely due to synchronized electron movement and whether aligned domains produce a current.
  • One participant expresses unfamiliarity with magnetic domains and suggests that if a current were present, it might be termed a polarization current rather than being related to magnetism.
  • A later post emphasizes that there is no link between electron spin and the currents in a solenoid, attributing the magnetic field to Ampere's Law and mentioning the impact of electron spin on magnetic materials.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of understanding and uncertainty regarding the relationship between current, electron movement, and magnetism. There is no consensus on the exact nature of these connections, with some participants proposing differing views on the role of electron alignment and current in generating magnetic fields.

Contextual Notes

Some discussions include references to specific laws and principles, such as Ampere's Law, but the application and implications of these concepts remain unresolved. The discussion also reflects a lack of clarity on the definitions and roles of magnetic domains and polarization currents.

Cluelessness
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This may be an obvious question but I have no idea:
How can anyone link current-carrying wires (solenoids) and its formulae, to magnets?!
All I've researched so far points out that magnets have their own stable magnetic field, attributed to the alignment of spins of the electrons of the atoms which the magnet is composed of. But is that all to it? Are there any other relationships, anything that I'm missing?
 
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Welcome to PF!

Hi Cluelessness! Welcome to PF! :smile:
Cluelessness said:
How can anyone link current-carrying wires (solenoids) and its formulae, to magnets?!

But is that all to it?

Basically, yes.

The only thing that causes magnetic fields is the movement of electric charge.

Even a charge moving with uniform velocity has a magnetic field.

Mechanically useful magnetic fields come from circular motion or spin of charges.

There's no essential difference between the tiny circular motion or spin of electrons in a magnet and the large-scale circular motion of electrons in a solenoid. :wink:
 
Thanks a lot tiny-tim! :D
Does that mean magnets exhibit magnetic properties solely due to synchronised movement of electrons i.e aligned domains? So this means that a current is not required like a solenoid? Or do aligned domains produce a current?
Sorry, I'm nearly there...I think :)
 
i'm really not familiar with magnetic domains, or magnetisable material generally :redface:

i think that if there was a current, it would be called a polarisation current, rather than something to do with magnetism :confused:
 
Cluelessness said:
This may be an obvious question but I have no idea:
How can anyone link current-carrying wires (solenoids) and its formulae, to magnets?!
All I've researched so far points out that magnets have their own stable magnetic field, attributed to the alignment of spins of the electrons of the atoms which the magnet is composed of. But is that all to it? Are there any other relationships, anything that I'm missing?
There is no link between electron spin, and the currents in a (air core) solenoidal coil producing a magnetic field. The magnetic field is due to Ampere's Law. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ampère's_circuital_law.
Electrons do have orbital and intrinsic spin dipole fields, which do impact magnetic materials and EPR (electron paramagnetic resonance).

The on-axis field in a solenoid is given in http://www.phys.uri.edu/~gerhard/PHY204/tsl215.pdf
 
Sorry for replying so late! ><
Thanks guys! I really appreciate it :D
 

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