Liquid nitrogen generator, N2 gas generator

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the construction and theory behind homemade nitrogen gas and liquid nitrogen generators, focusing on the methods used to achieve liquefaction and the challenges involved in the process. Participants share their experiences, insights, and technical questions related to the design and efficiency of these systems.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes their homemade N2 gas generator that uses pressure swing adsorption to concentrate nitrogen up to 99% and subsequently liquefy it.
  • Another participant questions how to achieve temperatures below the Joule-Thomson (JT) inversion temperature without prior access to liquid nitrogen for cooling.
  • Several participants discuss the inversion temperature of nitrogen and oxygen, noting it is above room temperature, and express interest in building a turbo expander.
  • There is speculation about the feasibility of using a piston-like engine for a homemade turbo expander, with a focus on extracting work from the system.
  • A participant reflects on the relationship between pressure drop and temperature change in the compressor, questioning the effects of varying flow rates and pressures on efficiency.
  • Concerns are raised about inconsistencies in unit conversions within the tutorials, specifically regarding temperature drops related to pressure changes.
  • One participant mentions the consumption of ice in the process and discusses the cooling mechanisms involved in their setup, including the use of a fan to cool coils.
  • A participant shares their experience with a cryogenic thermometer they built, claiming high accuracy for temperature measurements in their experiments.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views and questions regarding the construction and efficiency of nitrogen generators and turbo expanders. There is no clear consensus on the best methods or designs, and several technical aspects remain contested or unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Participants note limitations in their understanding of the efficiency of heat exchangers and the implications of varying flow rates and pressures on the liquefaction process. There are also unresolved issues regarding the accuracy of unit conversions in the provided tutorials.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to engineers, hobbyists, and researchers involved in cryogenics, gas liquefaction, and related experimental setups.

imsmooth
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I thought some of you engineers would be interested in reading my web tutorials. I have written some extensive tutorials on the theory and building of a homemade N2 gas generator. It takes regular air, and using pressure swing adsorption, concentrates the N2 up to 99%. This is here.

I then use this to supply the N2 for my homemade liquid nitrogen generator. I can liquefy N2 in my garage without any fancy, high-tech equipment. This tutorial is here.

What I'd really like to do is fabricate a small turbo expander, but I think I would need a CNC to do it correctly. Anyway, my generator produces about 300-350 cc/hr of LN2.
 
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Impressive! Wish I was as good with lathes & stuff.

How do you get it below the JT Inversion Temp. the very first time? When you've no LN2 to cool the gas against?
 
The inversion temperature for N2 and O2 is well above room temperature unlike Helium. I would love to make a turbo expander if anyone has some useful information or references.
 
imsmooth said:
The inversion temperature for N2 and O2 is well above room temperature unlike Helium. I would love to make a turbo expander if anyone has some useful information or references.

Ah. So you could liquify any gases except those two I guess.
 
imsmooth said:
The inversion temperature for N2 and O2 is well above room temperature unlike Helium. I would love to make a turbo expander if anyone has some useful information or references.

Industrial turbo expanders are intricate & carefully designed, but for a home brew I wonder if a piston like engine would work?

Essentially you want to take out work, somehow?
 
This is a really interesting project. Congratulations on your success.

It would be impractical for me to attempt this at the moment but it is definitely going on my list of projects to attempt in the future. For now I will limit myself to the theory.

That compressor is a beast. The temperature change appears to be linear with respect to the pressure drop so I wonder whether a higher volume flow rate at lower pressure would also work. If the mass flow rate is kept constant could the pressure be reduced?

I'm not sure how that would alter the efficiency of the heat exchanger.

How much ice does it consume?

p.s. While reading through your tutorial I noticed that you sometimes switch between units while the values remain the same. For example on http://homemadeliquidnitrogen.com/ you talk about a 1/4 degree Fahrenheit temperature drop for each atmosphere of pressure drop. However, on http://homemadeliquidnitrogen.com/compressor.html this becomes a 0.25C temperature drop.
 
imsmooth said:
I thought some of you engineers would be interested in reading my web tutorials.
If AHS wasn't covering my oxygen generators, I'd be actively seeking you out right now. The portable unit cost over $5,000. It's exactly the same as your machine in principle, except it spits the nitrogen out and releases the remainder (98+% oxygen) into my nose. Top speed is 3 litres/minute on constant flow or up to 6L/m on pulse (demand regulator). The plug-in home unit is constant only and goes up to 10.
 
I'm glad you all find this interesting. This took a lot of research and work. Figuring out the baffle section was also trial and error, and some consultation with an engineer at Air Products. I fixed the 1/4 F / 1/4 C typo. I believe it is 1/4 C all around. I am sure a lower pressure with a higher mass flow rate will work. One just has to make sure more heat leaves the system than seeps back into it. If I was running experiments for a mass-marketed product I would a high-flow rate compressor running at a few hundred psi. I am guessing that if you don't have really high flows the gradient will be too low, and you will have a very, very long cool-down.

The unit consumes almost no ice. The ice-bath takes some of the heat out. A lot of heat comes out on the compressor-side when the coils get cooled by a fan.

If anyone is interested, I built a highly accurate cryogenic thermometer for this stuff. It is accurate to tenths of a degree (F and C). You can see it at http://homemadeliquidnitrogen.com/crybaby.

Maybe some of you can use it for your experiments.
 

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