Logic Flawed? Is Rn Homotopic to Rm

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the homotopy relationship between Rn and Rm, particularly addressing the confusion regarding the implications of contractibility and homotopy equivalence. Participants explore concepts related to homotopy, homeomorphism, and the distinctions between these ideas in the context of topology.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant asserts that Rn is contractible and thus has the homotopy type of a point, leading to the conclusion that Rm should also be homotopic to Rn, which raises confusion.
  • Another participant provides an example involving (0,1) and S1, suggesting that if (0,1) is homotopic to R2, then R must be homotopic to R2, which is challenged by others.
  • A participant reflects on their own reasoning, stating that R2 can be homotoped to R through a straight line homotopy.
  • One participant emphasizes the distinction between homotopy and homeomorphism, noting that while Rn and Rm share the same homotopy type, they are not homeomorphic.
  • Another participant corrects a previous claim about (0,1) being homotopic to S1, indicating a misunderstanding and clarifying their intended statement.
  • A participant questions the use of the term "homotopic," suggesting that it may have been used incorrectly to refer to homotopy equivalence.
  • One participant acknowledges the confusion caused by their professor's use of terminology, clarifying that they meant to refer to homotopy equivalence.
  • Another participant warns that not all simply connected spaces are contractible, cautioning against making assumptions based solely on simple connectivity.
  • A further contribution discusses the conditions under which a space is contractible, using examples of simply connected spaces that are not contractible.
  • One participant notes that compactness is not a homotopy invariant, providing an example to illustrate this point.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of homotopy and homeomorphism, with some agreeing on the homotopy equivalence of Rn and Rm while others emphasize the distinctions between these concepts. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the broader implications of contractibility and simple connectivity.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the discussion regarding the assumptions made about homotopy and homeomorphism, as well as the implications of simple connectivity and contractibility. Some mathematical steps and definitions remain unresolved.

dumbQuestion
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Rn homotopic to Rm?!?

I am so confused about something simple

Ok, I know that Rn is contractible, just by a straightline homotopy sending all points to the origin. So this means Rn has the homotopy type of a point. So Rm, for a different integer m, has the homotopy type of a point. Since homotopy equivalence is an equivalence relation, this means that Rm is homotopic to Rn? But this is not possible right?

Can someone tell me where my logic is flawed?
 
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(another example being, (0,1) homeomorphic to R, and we know (0,1) is homotopic to S1, and also we know S1 is homotopic to R2, so that would mean R is homotopic to R2)
 


well... now that I think about it... it makes sense. If I have say R2, I could homotope it to R by just a straight line homotopy (every point (x1,y1) traveling straight along the line x=x1 until it reaches (x1,0)). Nevermind. I answered my own question.
 


There is a HUGE difference in the concept of homotopy and the concept of homeomorphism.
You are right: ℝ^n has indeed the same homotopy type of ℝ^m, still they are not homeomorphic.

Maybe this is the reason why you were confused at firsts.

Furthermore, you are wrong when you say that (0,1) is homotopic to S^1. This is false. It is also false that S^1 is homopotic to R^2.
Where did you read that? However, it is true that ℝ is homotopic to ℝ^2.

PS The fact that ℝ^n is not homeomorphic to ℝ^m, despite being quite intuitive, is hard to prove and relies on this theorem http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invariance_of_domain

Hope I clarified a little...
 


You're right, I am not sure why I claimed that (0,1) is homotopic to S1. I put an extra step in there and simply meant to say:

"(another example being, (0,1) homeomorphic to R, and we know (0,1) is homotopic to R2, so that would mean R is homotopic to R2)"
 
What do you mean with "homotopic" in the first place? Do you mean to say that the spaces are homotopy equivalent?
 
Yes, I'm sorry, my prof tends to throw around the term "homotopic" broadly for both maps as well as spaces and I think that's a bad habit. (Not criticizing him because he's a great prof, this material is so obvious to him he probably doesn't even think about it because he knows the material so well) But as someone new to this material it's caused me a lot of grief because there is a difference between these two concepts. I mean to say they are homotopy equivalent yes.
 
dumbQuestion said:
Yes, I'm sorry, my prof tends to throw around the term "homotopic" broadly for both maps as well as spaces and I think that's a bad habit. (Not criticizing him because he's a great prof, this material is so obvious to him he probably doesn't even think about it because he knows the material so well) But as someone new to this material it's caused me a lot of grief because there is a difference between these two concepts. I mean to say they are homotopy equivalent yes.
The answer to your original question is Yes. The reason for this is that the topological space \mathbb{R}^n is simply connected for every positive integer n and thus it is contractible. And so for any 2 positive integers m≠n \mathbb{R}^m \sim \mathbb{R}^n (and by the '~' I mean they are homotopy equivalent even though as Fedecart pointed out they are not homeomophic).
 
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Zelyucha said:
TThe reason for this is that the topological space \mathbb{R}^n is simply connected for every positive integer n and thus it is contractible.

I want to warn the OP that not every simply connected space is contractible. So saying "it is simply connected and thus contractible" is not a valid implication. The valid implication would be "it is contractible and thus simply connected".
 
  • #10
You may also want to be careful saying _where_ it is that your space is contractible,
i.e., a loop may be deformed to a point within, say R^2 , but it is not contractible as
a stand-alone space, i.e., π1(S1) ≠ {0} (Say your loop does not
intersect itself, etc. so that it is an S1).

And, as a followup to micromass, take any Sn with n>1 as an example of simply-connected but not contractible (as a stand-alone).

And, BT
W, compactness is not a homotopy invariant, since, e.g., the intervals [a,b] and [a,b) on the real line are homotopy-invariant

EDIT In above line, homotopy-invariant should be homotopy-equivalent.
 
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