LOTR trilogy is terribly overrated

[Chi Meson]

Wish they would have done the scourging of the Shire at the end. And I don't see why they omitted mention of Tom Bombadil particularly in the extended versions, but ho hum, only so much you can squeeze into 3 hours I suppose.

I agree about the "scouring" bit. I think that the removal of Saruman as the final act, and the fact that the war finally ends in the shire, and that the strengths of the other three hobbits finally comes to the front, made this one of the most important chapters in the book(s).

But I could have done without Tom Bombadil in the books completely. I know others liked the character, but if I had been the editor, he would have been blue-lined.

 

[Schrodinger's Dog]

I agree about the "scouring" bit. I think that the removal of Saruman as the final act, and the fact that the war finally ends in the shire, and that the strengths of the other three hobbits finally comes to the front, made this one of the most important chapters in the book(s).

But I could have done without Tom Bombadil in the books completely. I know others liked the character, but if I had been the editor, he would have been blue-lined.

Yeah Saruman and Sharkeys gang overtaking the Shire, is a really important part of the book, and Saruman's final demise. I think they could have had a quick mention of Tom, maybe a 15 minute scene with the Barrow Wight and the rescue from the Hourn: Old Man Willow. Would of made an interesting interlude. Anyway, I would of liked to have seen quite a few scenes added, but those are two I personally think could have been included. I mean after all Tom Bombadil is in his own realm more powerful than Sauron and one of the most powerful Maia remaining on Middle Earth, so a bit of a mention wouldn't of gone amiss. Also the amendment from Glorfindel to Arwyn being the elf that takes Frodo to the Ford of Rivendell, was unnecessary, as the love interest was more than accommodated elsewhere. Anyway, still a fine effort.

 

[arildno]

I agree about the "scouring" bit. I think that the removal of Saruman as the final act, and the fact that the war finally ends in the shire, and that the strengths of the other three hobbits finally comes to the front, made this one of the most important chapters in the book(s).

But I could have done without Tom Bombadil in the books completely. I know others liked the character, but if I had been the editor, he would have been blue-lined.

Agreed.

Tom Bombadil clearly belongs in the same hap-hazard, unthought-through and whimsical pre-Middle Earth Tolkien wrote about in "The Hobbit". His early ideas about elves and the sundering of the world (Numenor as the sunken Atlantis) were originally disparate from his hobbit tale, and it was only during writing the Hobbit and beyond that his ideas began to coalesce.

Whereas figures like Elrond and Gandalf make a smooth transition into his integrated Middle Earth, Tom Bombadil jars with it in numerous ways.
(He seems to be a whimsical remnant of the unrelated chance encounters that dominate "The Hobbit").

That "The Hobbit", and how he told it, had a strong grip on him that he struggled to come free from is for example evidenced in that in his first drafts of the Cirith Ungol adventure he peopled that pass with the same type of spider population as in Mirkwood. The figure of Shelob grew slowly in his mind.


So, yes, I agree with you that I do not miss Tom Bombadil, but I do miss the barrow-wight..

 

[Quincy]

Roommate made me watch all 3 this past weekend. :zzz: :zzz: :zzz:


The first movie was extremely boring. The next two were just awful as well. I wanted to throw the remote at the TV after the 103948302948023984234 overhead flying shot.

LOTR trilogy has got to be some of the most overrated set of films ever. CGI sucks.

I can't imagine anyone finding the movies boring... What about the battle scenes? you couldn't have thought they were boring, especially in the Two Towers.

 

[Schrodinger's Dog]

Agreed.

Tom Bombadil clearly belongs in the same hap-hazard, unthought-through and whimsical pre-Middle Earth Tolkien wrote about in "The Hobbit". His early ideas about elves and the sundering of the world (Numenor as the sunken Atlantis) were originally disparate from his hobbit tale, and it was only during writing the Hobbit and beyond that his ideas began to coalesce.

Whereas figures like Elrond and Gandalf make a smooth transition into his integrated Middle Earth, Tom Bombadil jars with it in numerous ways.
(He seems to be a whimsical remnant of the unrelated chance encounters that dominate "The Hobbit").

That "The Hobbit", and how he told it, had a strong grip on him that he struggled to come free from is for example evidenced in that in his first drafts of the Cirith Ungol adventure he peopled that pass with the same type of spider population as in Mirkwood. The figure of Shelob grew slowly in his mind.So, yes, I agree with you that I do not miss Tom Bombadil, but I do miss the barrow-wight..

That's what I mean I can happily do without the fol derol dols, and olde worldy soppyness that is Goldberry and Tom's woodland fairy realm, I mean the guy plays like some sort of Junky who's had too much of the wrong sort of mushroom, if you know what I mean. But the part where they get lost in the forest and then fall asleep under the Hourn and almost get killed and are rescued by Tom, and the harrowing night they spend on The Barrow Downs, were parts of the books that helped ramp up the tension after they had escaped the Buckleberry ferry crossing. In the book they really helped to add a dimension, that nowhere was safe in ME now that Sauron was once again master of Mordor. Evil spirits and fell and twisted plans were once again rising and being set against ME.

 

[binzing]

Tom Bombadil is one of the strangest characters in his books.

 

[Poop-Loops]

He sings his enemies to death. That's the kind of power [insert crappy singer] only dreams of.

 

[binzing]

They are original flower children to every extent of the meaning.

 

[Schrodinger's Dog]

They are original flower children to every extent of the meaning.

Well it's actually more comparable to the Celtic mythology, the faerie folk who would lead people to Tir na Nog and there they would dance and sing and be shown the grace of that land. Obviously he never envisioned the 60's when he wrote the book, but the book has the mythos of the Earth magic and the power of the fairy folk over the land. Of course people might think the mythos was benign, but the Huorns and the Ents, show the problem with standing against the power of nature when they destroy Isengard in The Two Towers. Considerate to those that work within the cycles of nature but vengeful and destructive of those that don't.

 

[binzing]

His stuff may be boring in parts or in total, depending upon your personal preferences, but he definitely took great care in detail and have backgrounds for hiw writing. IMO, one of the best writers of the 20th century.

 

[arildno]

His stuff may be boring in parts or in total, depending upon your personal preferences, but he definitely took great care in detail and have backgrounds for hiw writing. IMO, one of the best writers of the 20th century.

At least, one of the most original ones, following his own peculiar vision to its end (and beyond).

And he most certainly is one of the best fantasy writers of all time.

 

[Schrodinger's Dog]

At least, one of the most original ones, following his own peculiar vision to its end (and beyond).

And he most certainly is one of the best fantasy writers of all time.

Indeed his vision was to bring mythology back to the English, a mythology he'd thought we'd lost. If nothing else he created the genre on which Harry Potter owes its existence, and all the fantasy books of the early 20th century paled in significance to, although in fantasy were important. That said there were many books, but in his time fantasy was a dying art, now it's the most popular style of fiction in modern history. If you don't like it, well tough, there's always other mediums.

 

[Chi Meson]

He sings his enemies to death. That's the kind of power [insert crappy singer] only dreams of.

Phil Collins

 

[Kurdt]

Phil Collins

I think Phil Collins has actually killed people by singing to them.

 

[binzing]

He's not that bad. But I think Genesis would have stayed around longer if Peter had stayed.

 

[turbo]

He's not that bad. But I think Genesis would have stayed around longer if Peter had stayed.

Peter is killer. If you have nothing by Mr. Gabriel, buy "Shaking the Tree" and then start building around that collection. He is a creative genius.

 

[binzing]

I've got that album and the new double one "Hits". He's great. I think Sledgehammer is really cool. Got the meaning? Should be obvious.

 

[CaptainQuasar]

Okay, if we're going to talk about music and LOTR at the same time someone has to mention http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XC73PHdQX04".

⚛​

 

[binzing]

Actually I liked the soundtracks to the movies. Yeah, they have some weird stuff in the songs and literature of all of the different races in the books.

 

[CaptainQuasar]

You didn't follow that link, did you binzing? It's not from a soundtrack or any of the books, it's from the Final Frontier.

⚛​

 

[Schrodinger's Dog]

Actually I liked the soundtracks to the movies. Yeah, they have some weird stuff in the songs and literature of all of the different races in the books.

It's actually not really that wierd, it's all just a mish mash of various European mythologies. If you know about those then it all tends to make sense. The fact that Riders of Rohan are horse warriors and believe in a hall of heroes for the dead and some of the Valar, kind of gives it away. Also all the Valar (Kind of like Archangles, under Eru:God) Are elemental or natural in their aspect. So you have Manwë( Lord of the Valar) Air, Varda (Lady of the Valar) Stars, Ulmo (The ocean lord) water, Yavanna (queen of the Earth) earth&nature, Aulë (chief Valar of the Dwarves, smith and maker of mountains wife of Yavana) earth, Namo (Lord of the dead) Death, Neinna (Sister of Namo: mourning, pity, suffering and endurance) Death, Oröme (Huntsman, horselord and tamer of beasts) nature, flora and fauna. These are the arch valar although there are lesser Valar of dance, valour and dreams and such. And of course last but not least of the dark lord of the Valar the source of much of the evil in Middle Earth Melkor (All powers of the Valar in part) darkness & cold, master of Sauron. Cast out into the void, in the wars of the Silmarillion.

Equally all the other races and customs, all make sense when you know the mythology behind it, which draws heavily, from Norse, Saxons, Gallic/Celtic, Hun, Goths, even in small part from Roman and Greek and others, and an array of his own invention. The peoples weren't meant to be such and such a race, but what he imagined a mythology with all sorts of ideas of his and historical mythology, would be like. With all the legends woven into history and the peoples and given their own Tolkien touch and imagination.