Madeburg’s Hemispheres from 1657 Revisited

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a modern reinterpretation of von Guericke's 1657 experiment with atmospheric pressure, specifically focusing on a setup involving two pistons in a horizontally mounted cylinder with a vacuum cavity. The participants explore the forces required to separate the pistons and the conditions under which the pneumatic seals might fail.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Conceptual clarification

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the need for specific parameters, such as the area of the pistons, to calculate the force exerted by atmospheric pressure. There is confusion regarding the relationship between vacuum pressure and the failure point of the seals, with some questioning how the forces interact under the given conditions.

Discussion Status

The discussion is active, with participants offering different interpretations of the pressure dynamics at play. Some guidance has been provided regarding the conditions under which the seals would fail, but there remains uncertainty about the calculations and the physical implications of the vacuum on the pistons.

Contextual Notes

Participants are operating under assumptions about the piston area and the maximum pressure rating of the seals, which may influence their reasoning. The specific values for pressure and area are critical to the calculations being discussed.

Roger900
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Hello Specialists in Physics!
Way back in 1657, von Guericke in Madeburg Germany demonstrated the tremendous force of atmospheric pressure by placing two large hemispheres together, evacuating the air from inside, and hitching a team of horses to each hemisphere. The horses were unable to pull the hemispheres apart. In fact, it took four teams straining on each side to break the vacuum seal.
What if von Guericke's experiment was performed today, but instead the set-up was a horizontally mounted cylinder with 2 pistons in the cylinder. Assume the pistons have pneumatic seals that provide zero vacuum leakage, but the seals do have a maximum PSI point before failure. Assume the pistons are separated 1” apart, and in this 1” cavity a 95% vacuum was drawn, and then the cavity is sealed. How much force would be required to “pull” the pistons further apart? Can they even be pulled apart? At what force would the pneumatic seals fail?
Thanks,
Roger
 
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I think the area of the pistons must be given. Only then, you can calculate the force being exerted due to the air. (ie, F=P*A)
 
Let's assume (1) the surface area of each piston is one square inch, (2) the piston seals have a 100 PSI rating, and (3) a 95% vacuum exists in the cavity which is equal to (0.95 * 14.69 PSI) = 13.95 PSI.

Here is where I get confused:

If each piston is receiving a vacuum of -13.95 PSI, but the seals will not fail until 100 PSI, would it not require a total force of 100 pounds to "pull" the pistons apart by making the seals fail?
 
No. The seals fail when there is a 100 psi difference from one side of the piston to the other. Run them at anything less than 3100 psi in a 3000 psi environment, and they're fine.

All you get when you pull a 1 sq. in. piston from a sealed cylinder when in a normal atmosphere environment is a "pop" as the air moves into the evacuated volume of the cylinder.
 

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