Make solid ice from supercooled water?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the conditions necessary for supercooled water to freeze completely solid, specifically focusing on the temperature required for this transition and the energy exchanges involved in the process. The scope includes theoretical considerations of phase changes and energy balance in thermodynamics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the temperature at which supercooled water must be to freeze completely solid, suggesting it needs to be below zero degrees Celsius.
  • Another participant proposes a relationship between the energy required to warm supercooled water and the energy released when water freezes at 0 degrees Celsius.
  • A different approach is suggested, starting with ice at 0 degrees Celsius and considering the energy needed to convert it to water and then cool it down to a lower temperature.
  • One participant expresses uncertainty about the energy balance, initially thinking it involves warming ice rather than supercooled water, noting the difference in specific heat capacities between ice and water.
  • This participant later acknowledges a possible misunderstanding regarding the energy requirements in the freezing process.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the energy balance involved in the freezing of supercooled water, with no consensus reached on the specific temperature or energy relationships required for the process.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the importance of specific heat capacities in their discussions, indicating that assumptions about these values may influence their conclusions. The discussion does not resolve the mathematical steps or the exact temperature needed for freezing.

Frantzen
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Im having a discusion reguarding what temperature (celsius) supercooled water needs to be if it was to freeze completely solid. Going from liquid to solid "produces" heat. Therefor it is obvious that the temperature needs to be somewhat below zero.

What temperature (celsius) is needed if all the supercooled water should turn into ice and stay at zero degrees afterwards?

Thanks!
 
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The energy to warm M grams of supercooled water from minus X degrees C to 0 degrees C equals the energy given off when M grams of water at 0 degrees C turns into ice at 0 degrees C?
 
Maybe it is more helpful to start with M grams of ice at 0 degrees C and then add energy E to turn the ice into M grams of water at 0 degrees C and then remove the same energy E from the water to bring it down to minus X degrees C?
 
Spinnor said:
The energy to warm M grams of supercooled water from minus X degrees C to 0 degrees C equals the energy given off when M grams of water at 0 degrees C turns into ice at 0 degrees C?

Mmmmm... I'd have thought that it would be the energy required to warm M gram of ice from minus X degrees C to 0 degrees C that has to balance the energy given off by the water turning to ice. The specific heat of ice is appreciably less than that of water.
 
Nugatory said:
Mmmmm... I'd have thought that it would be the energy required to warm M gram of ice from minus X degrees C to 0 degrees C that has to balance the energy given off by the water turning to ice. The specific heat of ice is appreciably less than that of water.

I think I had that backwards, yes?
 

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