Making Rust Quickly: 4 Methods I've Tried

[chroot]

Go to Wal-Mart, or any camping store, and buy a magnesium fire starter. It's basically a block of solid magnesium and a scraper. You can scrape off plenty of little magnesium filings, ball them up, and light them with just about any flame. They'll burn hot enough to ignite your thermite.

- Warren

 

[mrjeffy321]

this thread just gets more and more off topic doesn't it, but that's OK I suppose.



I didnt know those were magnesium, I thought those fire starters were flint, i'll try that.

 

[mrjeffy321]

apparently those things are magnesium.

so i got one of those fire starters, and I carefully scraped off some of the magnesium into a pile (it took a while because sometimes I would accidently ignite the pile and I would have to start over). then i put it with my mix of thermite and lit it, it burned very fast with lots of intensity, but I don't think it ignited the thermite.
the thermite powder was slightly damp, and didnt change much after the Mg powder burned, so I don't think anything happened. I guess I didnt have enough powder for it to get hot enough. anyone know off the top of your head how how I need to get it, I though it was around 1800, 1900 degrees F, and it is advertized that the Magnesium stuff can get up to around 5000 degrees.

I'll try more later

 

[Brennen]

i have an idea. find somebody you don't like, and attempt to ignite the thermite on the hood of their car.

just a thought.

 

[mrjeffy321]

yes, that seems to be a popular activity done with thermite, but it takes me a considerable amount of work just to get 1 ounce, so I don't think i will be wasting it like that.

still haven't tried a larger amount of magnesium yet, I was on a vacation (to rocket camp by the way) so my next trip to wal mart, i will try to pick some up.

 

[Faran]

I made it!

Warren.. I love you.. In a strait sort of way..

I recently started making a batch of thermite (two weeks ago..) and have been scraping random things for rust. Thank you.

 

[dx/dy=?]

Have you tried adding some Al2 to the Fe2O3? As this helps sustain and distribute the thermal reaction. Also, make sure the iron-oxide is completely DRY before lighting.
As for magnesium ignition, I have used an Mg-ribbon fuse layed THROUGH the thermite to ignite it.

 

[mrjeffy321]

as for myself, I never got a really "good" thermite reaction to go off, I have however succeeded in creating a couple small, smuldering type reactions though. I think my aluminum is the problem, it is relatively course and old, but even when it was never, I think it got oxidized a little too much.
I have tried two methods of starting it, actually 3 if you count the 2 diferent types of magnesium. I tried powdered magnesium that I got from a fire starter, it worked OK, but I think it burned too fast to really get the thermite going. I used, Magnesium ribbon like a fuse that burnt down into the thermite, but this however never really did anything either, I caused a few small "sparky" reactions to start but in general the thermite seemed to put the magnesium out rather that get started, the part of the ribbon brried in the thermite remained in burned. The third and most successful method for me was using a potassium chlorate and sugar mixture, I tended to just pile it on, lost of this stuff, and then set it off with a match. This last method more than any other I think got it going the best, although, as I say, I never had a really good reaction with any method because of my poor quality aluminum.

I am, or could be that is, making rust at a record rate. ihave really perfected my method of that down really well so that I can make large, pure, nucely powdered batches if Iron Oxide.

 

[dx/dy=?]

Hmmmmm.
Magnesium ribbon has worked for me quite well before.
If you can't get a sustainable reaction with the above ignitors, are you sure the metal plate your using is pure iron? (i had this problem once apon a time.)
I only think this because dry Iron Oxide SHOULD burn relatively well.
Although I've never seen all of the thermite combusted in a thermite reaction.

Try encasing the thermite mixture inside a box or ball of magnesium ribbon, this may give the reaction the sufficient amount of heat it needs to sustain ignition.
(BIG waste of Mg though.....)

 

[mrjeffy321]

I think my Iron Oxide is very good quality, I made a big batch and gave some to a friend to use in his thermite reaction, and he said it worked really well.
It must be my aluminum(and/or my mixture), because I am almost positive that I am getting the thermite hot enough to start reacting, using anyone of the 3 starting methods stated above.
perhaps I am expecting too much of a reaction from my thermite, and I am getting it, but it is just not nearly as impressive as I expect it to be, like I have seen in example videos, I do notice that there is less aluminum powder after ward than there was when it started, so it did react somewhat.

 

[hypatia]

Keep in mind that steel wool is also coated with a rust-proofing agent

 

[mrjeffy321]

not the cheap-o kind that I use, just bare metal

 

[Cesium]

When making the iron oxide via the bleach method, do you just let the solution evaporate? I thought rust was insolube in water. The solution is dark red.

 

[mrjeffy321]

After the reaction has stopped, I dilute the solution by adding water (amount depends on the amount of rust you make).
Since the reaction of bleach with iron is as follows,
2Fe + 3NaOCl -> Fe2O3 + 3NaCl
if you were to just let the water evaporate off to dry out the rust, you would be getting a lot of sodium chloride contaminating it. This is why I add all the extra water because I then decant (and or syphone with plastic tube) it off so in essence, I have rust is relatively pure water.
When I reach this stage, I then take the rust and remove as much water as I can (let the rust settle to the bottle, so the water on top is clear, or thereabouts), then pour it into a large metal pan (so the rust has a lot of surface area to help dry), and set it in the sun (weather permitting). When dry, you should have chunks of rust that can be easily powdered by crushing them with a spoon or other implement.

 

[Cesium]

Alright thanks for all your help. I will try this tomorrow. It is difficult to work with this stuff because the chlorine is really bad. I have to hold my breath whenever I'm moving it or whatnot.

 

[psycho2499]

OK...a sugestion

I have heard that copper oxide would work to ignite the reaction because it is ignitable by a match and gets damn hot...I have never tried this method

ANd i am going to try to get my reaction to start with a mixture of raw black powder...Which i have gotten good at making...

SO try these methods if you will my bet is that to get the thing going with the black powder you need a 2:1 part by volume mix of powder to thermite...then it will burn long enough to hopefully get the thermite going...

So try it out see if either one works...that is what i am working on...just getting the rust right as we speak

 

[Jacquesl]

making rust - Buy a old Alfa Romeo car

 

[Pink_floyd420]

I also need to get powderd iron oxide quick, so i have added 2 parts bleech and 4 parts viniger and put a lot of steel nails in, i draned the liquid after it turned brown with the nailes in it sill, and naw it is sitting in my garage, do i need to wait for it all to evapotate and dry? what can i do to get te powder quickest

 

[Jacquesl]

so i have added 2 parts bleech and 4 parts viniger and put a lot of steel nails in

Why do you use bleach and vinegar both, does it give a better effect or what?

 

[Pink_floyd420]

yes bleech helps it corode better...



OK i have taken the nailes out, and threw aay the wayter, there pritty rusty.. should i want cause tere still soaked so should i wait overnite, i need about 2 grams of rust I am makeing thermite

 

[BillJx]

If you want a source of small iron chips for making rust, go to a machine shop and ask if you can get a tin full of chips from machining cast iron. Steel chips will be covered in cutting oil but cast iron is usually cut dry.

Be warned: cast iron is dirty because it's full of carbon. Aside from that, iron powder that gets into your clothes will rust and make your wife rather unhappy, especially if it goes into the laundry!

 

[fusion5]

edit= after a few experiments i found out it can be used to replace Fe2O3 for a lot of things.

 

[jmnew51]

Isn't the reaction between potassium permanganate and glycerine supposed to be pretty intense. I've never tried it, but I heard it makes a good addition to a survival kit. I heard you make a small pile of permanganate(a teaspoon maybe) and add a few drops of glycerine to a well you make in the center.
Plus I heard permanganate is good for infections and such.

 

[BrianMc223]

A regular kids fourth of July sparkler can ignite a thermite reaction.

So I've heard.

 

[Oaksinstructor]

First off, some of you aren't reading the thread before posting... the first page explains in excellent detail why both bleach (the oxidizer) and vinegar are necessary to make the 'rust' quickly, there is also a warning about the dangers of this combination...

While a sparkler does have small bits of magnesium in it (that's what makes the bright white 'sparks' that shoot off) and magnesium burns hot enough to begin a thermite reaction, a sparkler will not typically ignite a pile of thermite because the little Mg bits don't burn long enough to get the reaction up to full temperature. However, if you buy a coil or ribbon of Mg, you can use that like a wick to begin your thermite reaction. The Potassium Permanganate and Glycerine trick will work as well, but is a tad less reliable (and a bit less safe). I ugre you again to be EXCEEDINGLY CAUTIOUS before you ignite thermite. depending on your mixture and amount anything within 20 feet or so will be scorched. Also, plan for the molten iron to flow somewhere, I recommend a metal bucket filled with DRY sand.

 

[jmnew51]

And whatever you do, don't use a torch to ignite the thermite (oxyacetylene can reach a temperature of about 3050C)I've read that if a large portion of the material reaches ignition temperature at once it can react explosively. I would not want to be any where near that.

 

[BigFairy]

And whatever you do, don't use a torch to ignite the thermite (oxyacetylene can reach a temperature of about 3050C)I've read that if a large portion of the material reaches ignition temperature at once it can react explosively. I would not want to be any where near that.

yes..lol