Mapping Tangent Space to Manifold - Questions & Answers

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the mapping of tangent spaces to manifolds, specifically the use of the exponential map \(\exp_p\) and the evaluation of the parameter \(\lambda\) at 1. Participants explore the implications of this choice, its arbitrary nature, and the potential for alternative parameterizations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the choice of evaluating the parameter \(\lambda\) at 1, suggesting it seems arbitrary and could lead to mapping to distant points in the manifold.
  • Another participant asserts that the value of \(\lambda\) can be selected to yield different parameterizations of the same curve, implying flexibility in the choice.
  • A different perspective suggests that while \(\lambda = 1\) is a convention, it is convenient for specifying travel along a geodesic, allowing for a simplified representation of displacement.
  • There is a proposal to characterize a "small scale" in the manifold by redefining the map to evaluate at a parameter \(s\) that is much smaller than a proposed "size" of the manifold, although this idea is met with skepticism regarding its general applicability.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of the parameter \(\lambda\) and its implications for the mapping process. While some acknowledge the arbitrary nature of the choice, others emphasize its convenience and practicality. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the potential for alternative parameterizations and the characterization of manifold size.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the choice of \(\lambda\) may not affect the underlying mathematics significantly, but it raises questions about the physical interpretation and implications of the mapping process.

guitarphysics
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Hi all, this might be a silly question, but I was curious. In Carroll's book, the author says that, in a manifold M, for any vector k in the tangent space T_p at a point p\in M, we can find a path x^{\mu}(\lambda) that passes through p which corresponds to the geodesic for that vector (k being the tangent vector to the path). Two conditions for this path are:
\lambda(p)=0 \\ \frac{dx^{\mu}}{d\lambda}(\lambda=0)=k^{\mu} <br />
(And, of course, it must satisfy the geodesic equation.)

From this, we can then construct a map, call it \exp_p: T_p\to M such that \exp_p(k)=x(\lambda=1)
Where x(\lambda=1) is the point in M belonging to the parametrized path introduced earlier (the geodesic for k) evaluated at \lambda=1. Now, my question is: why are we evaluating at \lambda=1? Not only does this seem arbitrary- it also seems completely independent of all aspects of the manifold. What I mean by this is that we could pick any parameter, big or small, for our geodesic (since we're working with an affine parameter, I think). Given this, it seems like we lose our ability to say that \exp_p maps to the neighborhood of p; it could map to faraway places in the manifold, given the right parameter. So given this,

1) Why was this chosen? Arbitrary convention?
2) Is what I pointed out above problematic, or is it a non-issue? (Regarding the fact that we can map to faraway places.)
3) Could something be chosen instead of \lambda=1, that sort of characterizes a "small scale" in the manifold? This is related to something I'm not very sure about- is there a way to establish the "physical size" of a manifold? Throwing rigor out the window, what I mean is this: maybe we could say that a manifold has "size" S_M, and then redefine the map so that \exp_p(k)=x(\lambda=s), where s&lt;&lt;S_M. For an example of what I mean by this "size", maybe we could say S_M=2\pi R for S^2? (The problem is I doubt this could be done in general :c ).

Many thanks in advance!
 
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The value of ##\lambda## is one because you can always select the tangent vector in such a way that you get a different parametrisation of the same curve.
 
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guitarphysics said:
From this, we can then construct a map, call it \exp_p: T_p\to M such that \exp_p(k)=x(\lambda=1)
Where x(\lambda=1) is the point in M belonging to the parametrized path introduced earlier (the geodesic for k) evaluated at \lambda=1. Now, my question is: why are we evaluating at \lambda=1?

I would say that it's just a convention, but it's convenient. Here is a way to think about it:

The most general way to specify how to travel from a point p along a geodesic would be given by a three-parameter function F(p,v,t), the meaning of which is: Find a geodesic \mathcal{P}(\lambda) such that \mathcal{P}(0) = p and \frac{d\mathcal{P}}{d\lambda}|_{\lambda=0} = v. Then let F(p,v,t) be the point \mathcal{P}(t). So it makes sense that the way you specify a destination is to give a starting point, p, a direction to travel, v, and a specification of how far to travel along the geodesic, t.

However, since a vector has both a direction and a magnitude, we can absorb the parameter t into v as follows:

F(p, v, t) = F(p, tv, 1)

So in F(p,v,t) you can just fix the third parameter to be 1, and allow the v parameter specify both the direction and how far to go. Carrol's exp_p(v) is just my F(p,v,1).

The choice of \lambda = 1 is pretty much arbitrary. However, it is convenient, because in a small region of space, you can approximate space by flat 3D space (or 4D, if you're talking about spacetime). Then you can use local Cartesian coordinates, so that p has coordinates (x,y,z) and v has components (v_x, v_y, v_z). Then if p&#039; = exp_p(v), the coordinates for p&#039; will be just (x+v_x, y+v_y, z+v_z). Then v can be interpreted as the "displacement vector" connecting p and p&#039;.
 
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Awesome, thank you both! (Funnily enough, it looks like Orodruin's answer is an abstract for stevendaryl's :D; same concepts, essentially, just different amount of detail hehe).
 

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