Mass distribution in a celestial system

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the mass distribution of objects in a rotating celestial system, particularly focusing on how different masses might affect their spatial distribution. Participants explore theoretical implications, observational examples, and the role of dark matter in such systems.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that lower-mass objects in a rotating celestial system might be more spread out, while higher-mass objects could be concentrated toward the center.
  • Others argue that the solar system does not support this hypothesis, noting that high-mass planets are located far from the center and that lower-mass asteroids are concentrated between Mars and Jupiter.
  • One participant suggests that the distribution of objects is influenced by various factors, including density and spacing, and questions the assumptions behind the initial hypothesis.
  • A later reply introduces the idea of a galaxy's matter and dark matter distribution, speculating that dark matter's dispersion could indicate it is lighter than regular matter.
  • Another participant counters that dark matter does not separate from regular matter as it does not collide, which is necessary for such separation to occur.
  • Some participants discuss the gravitational interactions of dark matter and its implications for distribution, suggesting that while dark matter does not collide, it can still interact gravitationally with matter.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between mass and distribution in celestial systems, with no consensus reached on the initial hypothesis or the role of dark matter.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes various assumptions about the nature of mass, density, and gravitational interactions, which remain unresolved. The implications of dark matter's non-collisional properties are also debated without definitive conclusions.

Ranku
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If two sets of objects, of similar size but different mass, were to be part of a rotating celestial system, how differently would they be distributed? Would the distribution of the lower-mass objects be more spread out, while the higher-mass objects would be concentrated toward the centre?
 
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Ranku said:
If two sets of objects, of similar size but different mass, were to be part of a rotating celestial system, how differently would they be distributed? Would the distribution of the lower-mass objects be more spread out, while the higher-mass objects would be concentrated toward the centre?
I'm no expert but I can say that our solar system does not follow this hypothesis. The four high mass planets are quite far out. The lower mass asteroids are most concentrated in the middle, between Mars and Jupiter.

Everything experiences the same acceleration due to gravity so I don't expect mass to have anything to do with distance from the center.
 
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I'd say there were too many variables in that to answer. If the bodies are more or less space-filling then I'd expect the denser ones to sink under their own self-gravity. But if the densities are wildly different you might end up with the dense bodies each surrounded by its own "atmosphere" of low density objects, but otherwise behaving more or less as if the low density ones didn't exist. And @Hornbein has a different reading.

I suspect that there are other interpretations possible. What sort of spacing, density ratio, average mass, average kinetic energy, etc did you have in mind, @Ranku?
 
Ibix said:
I suspect that there are other interpretations possible. What sort of spacing, density ratio, average mass, average kinetic energy, etc did you have in mind, @Ranku?
I had in mind a galaxy with matter and dark matter mix. I was wondering if the distribution of matter and dark matter, with much of matter concentrated toward the centre, and dark matter dispersed much further, could in some way be indicating that dark matter is lighter than matter.
 
No. That kind of separation between heavy and light species can happen, but it requires the species to be able to collide so that they can exclude one another from "their" region. Dark matter does not collide, neither with itself nor with matter, because it does not interact electromagnetically. Thus it can't separate out like species in a fractionating column.

The dark matter halo arises because of that lack of collision. Dark matter doesn’t collide, so it doesn’t heat up and end up radiating away its kinetic energy. Thus it keeps flying around at higher speeds than normal matter, and doesn’t clump into planets and stars.
 
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Ibix said:
No. That kind of separation between heavy and light species can happen, but it requires the species to be able to collide so that they can exclude one another from "their" region. Dark matter does not collide, neither with itself nor with matter, because it does not interact electromagnetically. Thus it can't separate out like species in a fractionating column.
But dark matter does interact gravitationally, including with matter. A hyperbolic flyby is an elastic collision.
 
snorkack said:
But dark matter does interact gravitationally, including with matter. A hyperbolic flyby is an elastic collision.
So if there is elastic collision, then can the process of separation of species between (heavier) matter and (lighter) dark matter in terms of their distribution occur after all, due to gravitational interaction - though the distribution would be somewhat different than what it would have been in collisional interaction.
 

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