Mass or attractive force responsible for not flying away

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    Flying Force Mass
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the reasons particles do not "fly away" and the roles of mass and attractive forces in the formation of atoms and physical matter. Participants explore concepts related to particle mass, attractive forces, and the behavior of massless particles, particularly in the context of gluons and photons.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that mass is a key factor preventing particles from flying off, as it contributes to their ability to form atoms.
  • Others argue that attractive forces are crucial for binding particles together, indicating a dual role of mass and force.
  • A participant questions the interpretation of mass in relation to the behavior of massless particles, suggesting that massless particles would experience infinite acceleration from any force.
  • There is a discussion about gluons being massless and their inability to "fly away" like photons, with some participants seeking clarification on the implications of color charge and the strong force.
  • Concerns are raised about defining acceleration for massless particles, with one participant noting that it leads to nonsensical results in classical mechanics.
  • Another participant mentions that gluons in nucleons are virtual and cannot escape due to the strong force, which is characterized by confinement.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the roles of mass and attractive forces, with no consensus reached on the primary reason particles do not fly away. The discussion includes multiple competing perspectives on the behavior of massless particles and the nature of gluons.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference concepts such as the strong force and color charge, but the discussion remains unresolved regarding the definitions and implications of these terms in relation to particle behavior.

rajeshmarndi
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Physicist say because of mass particles do not fly off else they wouldn't have formed atom.

I can understand because of mass particles slow down but it is due to attractive force particles are bound together.
 
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Physicist say because of mass particles do not fly off else they wouldn't have formed atom.
??

I can understand because of mass particles slow down
No.

but it is due to attractive force particles are bound together
Yes.
 
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So what does physicist mean when they say it is because of particle mass they do not fly off like photons do and wouldn't have formed physical matter or our body.
 
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rajeshmarndi said:
So what does physicist mean when they say it is because of particle mass they do not fly off like photons do and wouldn't have formed physical matter or our body.

I believe massless particles would experience an infinite acceleration from ANY force applied, causing them to move at light speed everywhere. Mass causes them to resist any changes in their motion and keeps them from just zipping back and forth due to any interaction.
 
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rajeshmarndi said:
Physicist say because of mass particles do not fly off else they wouldn't have formed atom.

I can understand because of mass particles slow down but it is due to attractive force particles are bound together.
Is this question in response to the recent new articles on the Higgs Boson? You need to read that stuff with reservation.
Also we have a rule about avoiding 'text-speak' on this forum. Please spell well-known words correctly; it is a matter of courtesy.:smile:
(of course, typos tend to be forgiven)
 
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Gluons have no mass, but they do not "fly away like photons".

when they say it is because of particle mass they do not fly off like photons do
Can you give a specific source where this is said?

Drakkith said:
I believe massless particles would experience an infinite acceleration from ANY force applied
How do you define acceleration for massless particles? They always fly at the speed of light, and in terms of deflection which clock do you use?
 
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mfb said:
How do you define acceleration for massless particles? They always fly at the speed of light, and in terms of deflection which clock do you use?

I don't think you can define it, which makes it nonsensical to talk about. In the normal F=MA equation you end up dividing force by zero to find the acceleration, leading to nonsense. Or the implosion of reality! :biggrin:

Gluons have no mass, but they do not "fly away like photons".

Interesting, I was not aware gluons were massless. Why wouldn't they "fly away" like photons though? Because of color charge?
 
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Their color charge is important here, right. Emitting a gluon is not possible in terms of energy - the strong force is too strong (confinement).
 
  • #10
mfb said:
Their color charge is important here, right. Emitting a gluon is not possible in terms of energy - the strong force is too strong (confinement).

The gluons in a nucleon are virtual correct?
 
  • #11
They cannot live long and they cannot fly away, so: Right.
 

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