Mass Relationships In Chemical Reactions

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the calculation of empirical formulas and molar masses in chemical reactions, specifically focusing on the combustion of styrene and the reaction of an unknown element with hydrogen to form a compound. Participants explore various approaches to solving these problems, including mole ratios and the impact of coefficients in balanced equations.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant calculates the empirical formula of styrene based on the combustion products and finds a mole ratio of C and H as 1:1.
  • Another participant confirms the empirical formula calculation, indicating agreement on the initial findings.
  • Questions arise regarding the effect of coefficients in balanced equations on the number of moles, with one participant seeking clarification on whether a coefficient change alters the mole count.
  • A participant presents a new problem involving an unknown element Z and its reaction with hydrogen, attempting to calculate the molar mass based on the mass of the products.
  • There is confusion regarding the use of oxygen and hydrogen in the calculations, with participants discussing the correct approach to determine moles from mass and the implications of using different molecular formulas.
  • One participant expresses uncertainty about their calculations and seeks further assistance, while another offers partial corrections and guidance on consistency in calculations.
  • Discussions include the validity of using the mass of a compound divided by its molar mass to find the number of moles, with some participants affirming this method while others caution about precision in terminology.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

While some participants agree on the empirical formula of styrene, there is no consensus on the calculations related to the unknown element Z, with multiple interpretations and approaches presented. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the best method for calculating molar masses and the implications of using different molecular representations.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the assumptions underlying their calculations, particularly regarding the roles of hydrogen and oxygen in the reactions. There are also unresolved mathematical steps and varying interpretations of how to apply mole ratios correctly.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students studying chemistry, particularly those working on empirical formulas, molar mass calculations, and the principles of stoichiometry in chemical reactions.

DarylMBCP
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Homework Statement



Styrene is a Hydrocarbon. If 0.438g of Styrene is burned in Oxygen and produces 1.481g of CO2 and 0.303g of H20, what is the empirical formula of styrene?

Homework Equations





The Attempt at a Solution



No. of moles of CO2 - 1.481g / 44.0107g/mol = 0.0337mol
No. of moles of C - 0.0337mol
No. of moles of H2O - 0.303g / 18.016g/mol = 0.0168mol
No. of moles of H - 2 x 0.0168mol = 0.0336mol
Mole ratio of C and H - 0.0337 : 0.0336
1 : 1

Is this ratio the empirical formula of Styrene?
 
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I got the same answer when I tried it.
 
Thank you for confirming my answer. By the way, does the coefficient of each compound in a balanced equation affect the number of moles of that substance?
Example:
There is an equation where there is H2O and the question says that the number of moles of H2O is 4 moles. If I balance the equation and the coeffcient of H2O happens to be 2, does that mean that the no. of moles of becomes 8 moles?

Thanks for answering my first question again.
 
You're welcome!

To answer your second question- the moles of H2O could be affected, but it would depend on what the question is asking you to do. If you post the entire question, I might be of more assistance.
 
Thanks for responding but I managed to solve that problem myself but faced a new one. Please help me for this one too. Thanks a lot.

Element Z reacts with Hydrogen to produce a pure sample of Z2H5 in an experiment, it is found that 1.0g of Z produces 2.7896g of Z2H5 . How do I find the molar mass of Z?

Is this possible?
2.7896 - 1 = 1.7896 (Mass of Oxygen)
1.7896g / 3 x 1.008g/mol = 0.5918mol (Of O3)
Mole ratio of Z2H5 - 2:5
0.5918 / 5 x 2 = 0.23672mol (No. of moles of X)
1g / 0.23672mol = 4.22441g/mol.

Is it correct to take the mass of Oxygen present / The molar mass of O3 to get the number of moles of O3? If so, is it correct to take the number of moles of O5 / 5 x 2 or take the number of moles of O / 5 x 2?

Thanks again for helping!
 
I was looking at a problem like this in another thread. I am only in my first quarter of AP Chem and we have not worked with problems like this yet. Here is the thread https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=261923". These problems have me fired up now! I'm going to class early today so I can have my teacher show me how to do them! :]
I'm sorry I could not be of greater assistance.
 
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Kk, pls show me the solution when you are done. Thank you.
 
DarylMBCP said:
Thanks for responding but I managed to solve that problem myself but faced a new one. Please help me for this one too. Thanks a lot.

Element Z reacts with Hydrogen to produce a pure sample of Z2H5 in an experiment, it is found that 1.0g of Z produces 2.7896g of Z2H5 . How do I find the molar mass of Z?

Is this possible?
2.7896 - 1 = 1.7896 (Mass of Oxygen)
1.7896g / 3 x 1.008g/mol = 0.5918mol (Of O3)
Mole ratio of Z2H5 - 2:5
0.5918 / 5 x 2 = 0.23672mol (No. of moles of X)
1g / 0.23672mol = 4.22441g/mol.

Is it correct to take the mass of Oxygen present / The molar mass of O3 to get the number of moles of O3? If so, is it correct to take the number of moles of O5 / 5 x 2 or take the number of moles of O / 5 x 2?

Thanks again for helping!

In the first part of your problem you say that you are looking for Z2H5, but then in your work you are using O. I am not quite sure where you are getting that from.

My chem teacher briefly showed me how to do it and did not have time to check my answer. I am 99% positive that I got the wrong answer though. It came out to be some thing like 2x+50395g/1383867447moles lol. I will ask her about it again tomorrow. I am sorry if this is due before then.
 
DarylMBCP said:
Thank you for confirming my answer. By the way, does the coefficient of each compound in a balanced equation affect the number of moles of that substance?

Learn how to read chemical reactions - I think it should answer your question.
 
  • #10
DarylMBCP said:
Element Z reacts with Hydrogen to produce a pure sample of Z2H5 in an experiment, it is found that 1.0g of Z produces 2.7896g of Z2H5 . How do I find the molar mass of Z?

Is this possible?
2.7896 - 1 = 1.7896 (Mass of Oxygen)
1.7896g / 3 x 1.008g/mol = 0.5918mol (Of O3)
Mole ratio of Z2H5 - 2:5
0.5918 / 5 x 2 = 0.23672mol (No. of moles of X)
1g / 0.23672mol = 4.22441g/mol.

Is it correct to take the mass of Oxygen present / The molar mass of O3 to get the number of moles of O3? If so, is it correct to take the number of moles of O5 / 5 x 2 or take the number of moles of O / 5 x 2?

Your post is so inconsistent because of this hydrogen/oxygen thing that it is hard to help. You are partially wrong and partially OK.
 
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  • #11
I think I kinda got mixed up with Oxygen and Hydrogen. This is what I meant;

Element Z reacts with Hydrogen to produce a pure sample of Z2H5 in an experiment, it is found that 1.0g of Z produces 2.7896g of Z2H5. How do I find the molar mass of Z?

Is this possible?
2.7896 - 1 = 1.7896 (Mass of Hydrogen)
1.7896g / 5 x 1.008g/mol = 0.3551mol (Of H)
Mole ratio of Z2H5 - 2:5
0.3551 x (2/5) = 0.14204mol (No. of moles of X)
1g / 0.14204mol = 7.0403g/mol.

Is it correct to take the mass of Hydrogen present divided by the molar mass of H5, to get the number of moles of H5? If so, is it correct to take the number of moles of H5 x (2/5) or take the number of moles of H x (2/5)?

Thanks for helping again!
 
  • #12
DarylMBCP said:
2.7896 - 1 = 1.7896 (Mass of Hydrogen)

OK

1.7896g / 5 x 1.008g/mol = 0.3551mol (Of H)

No. 1.7869/1.008 = 1.773 mol of H. What you calculated would be 0.3551 mol of H5, whatever it means. Not much.

Mole ratio of Z2H5 - 2:5

OK

0.3551 x (2/5) = 0.14204mol (No. of moles of X)

OK, although numbers are incorrect because you were wrong earlier.

1g / 0.14204mol = 7.0403g/mol.

OK, although numbers are incorrect because you were wrong earlier.

Is it correct to take the mass of Hydrogen present divided by the molar mass of H5, to get the number of moles of H5? If so, is it correct to take the number of moles of H5 x (2/5) or take the number of moles of H x (2/5)?

As long as you are consistent you can calculate it whichever way want. But you can't go for number of moles of H5 and then multiply it by 2/5 - you have to multiply it by 2. At the same time if you have number of moles of H you have to multiply it by 2/5, but you can't by 2.

My advice: forget about the H5 approach. It gives correct results when done properly, but you may have a hard time trying to convince your teachers that you were on the right track.
 
  • #13
As long as you are consistent you can calculate it whichever way want. But you can't go for number of moles of H5 and then multiply it by 2/5 - you have to multiply it by 2. At the same time if you have number of moles of H you have to multiply it by 2/5, but you can't by 2.

Is it true to say that if I take the mass of an element, X5 for example, and divide it by the molar mass of X times the subscript(5), I will get the number of moles of X5?
 
  • #14
DarylMBCP said:
Is it true to say that if I take the mass of an element, X5 for example, and divide it by the molar mass of X times the subscript(5), I will get the number of moles of X5?

Yes. That's what is routinely done for diatomics, like O2.

Just try to be precise, when you write

DarylMBCP said:
mass of an element, X5 for example

it raises a brow - no such element as X5. X5 is a molecule. Element is X.
 
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  • #15
Thanks very much. I've finally got it.
 

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