Math illiteracy, can you believe this?

  • Thread starter Thread starter robert Ihnot
  • Start date Start date
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the theme of mathematical illiteracy as observed in various contexts, including game shows, personal anecdotes, and educational experiences. Participants share examples of misunderstandings and misconceptions related to mathematics, exploring the implications of these observations on society and education.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • One participant recounts a game show incident where a contestant was disqualified due to a misunderstanding of a math-related question, highlighting a perceived lack of mathematical comprehension among the general public.
  • Another participant shares a similar experience with a game show question misread by the host, suggesting a broader issue of knowledge gaps beyond mathematics.
  • Some participants mention surveys indicating that individuals, including educated professionals, hold incorrect beliefs about basic astronomical facts, which they connect to a general state of innumeracy.
  • One contributor discusses the stigma surrounding mathematical inability compared to illiteracy, questioning societal attitudes towards these forms of ignorance.
  • Another participant notes that even students performing well in school mathematics may lack a fundamental understanding of concepts, such as the definition of Pi.
  • Several participants share anecdotes about misconceptions regarding mathematical concepts and the perception of mathematicians, illustrating a disconnect between public understanding and mathematical practice.
  • One participant criticizes educational materials for perpetuating mathematical illiteracy, citing an example from a textbook that inaccurately represents a mathematical constant.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a shared concern regarding mathematical illiteracy, but there is no consensus on the causes or solutions. Multiple viewpoints exist regarding the implications of this issue and the societal attitudes towards mathematics and literacy.

Contextual Notes

Some claims rely on personal anecdotes and observations, which may not represent broader trends. The discussion includes references to specific educational experiences and media portrayals that may not be universally applicable.

  • #31
robert Ihnot said:
Third question: If Santa Clause parallel parks his sleigh, what is perpendicular to this position? A) The side doors B) The back of the sleigh C) The runners of the sleigh.

actually, this is a rather ill-posed question. what exactly is meant by "this position"? There is an unspoken assumption of orientation here that confuses things a bit. All of the given answers are parts of the sleigh itself (and one of the answers -- the side doors -- can change their position), so anyone of them could be considered perpendicular to something else on the sleigh.

Furthermore, whatever does the "parallel parking" aspect have to do with things? A better form of the question would be:

If Santa Claus parallel parks his sleigh, which of the following is perpendicular to the curb? A) The side doors (when closed) B) The back of the sleigh C) The runners of the sleigh.
 
Mathematics news on Phys.org
  • #32
Doodle Bob said:
actually, this is a rather ill-posed question. what exactly is meant by "this position"? There is an unspoken assumption of orientation here that confuses things a bit. All of the given answers are parts of the sleigh itself (and one of the answers -- the side doors -- can change their position), so anyone of them could be considered perpendicular to something else on the sleigh.

Furthermore, whatever does the "parallel parking" aspect have to do with things? A better form of the question would be:

If Santa Claus parallel parks his sleigh, which of the following is perpendicular to the curb? A) The side doors (when closed) B) The back of the sleigh C) The runners of the sleigh.

I completely agree. I would have missed the original question.
 
  • #33
mattmns said:
I completely agree. I would have missed the original question.
It took me a good five minutes to even understand what it was asking.
 
  • #34
I am not exactly sure how the question was put. In fact, I think Answer C was The Raindeer; I did not really remember that.

I thought, however, that the use of the term "parallel park," which is common in America, or was in my day, and tests the driver at the motor bureau, indicated something. The driver is expected to park close to the curb so that the front and back wheels of the passenger side of the car are within something like 1 foot from the curb. The examiner then grades this.
 
Last edited:
  • #35
robert Ihnot said:
I thought, however, that the use of the term "parallel park," which is common in America and is frequently tested to get a license, indicated something. The driver is expected to park close to the curb so that the front and back wheels of the passenger side of the car are within something like 1 foot from the curb.

I completely understood the parallel parking aspect of it. In fact, you'll notice that I incorporated it into my own version of the question.

My point, however, was that the contestants may not have gotten the question wrong more to having not understood the question and just guessing rather than math illiteracy.
 
  • #36
Doodle Bob said:
My point, however, was that the contestants may not have gotten the question wrong more to having not understood the question and just guessing rather than math illiteracy.
Much faith, hast thou!

As to the original anecdote (whose accuracy is not necessary for the main point in the OP to be true)...

http://www.fullcontactpoker.com/poker-forum/index.php?showtopic=83507
(not original source)

Santa just parallel parked his sleigh. Which part of the car is perpendicular to the curb?
a. the driver's side door
b. the passenger's side door
c. the back end

From another recollection... http://boards.sonypictures.com/boards/showthread.php?p=607381

Santa just successfully parallel parked his sleigh! Which part of it is now perpendicular to the curb?

54 were wrong including Annie Duke (she ended up with 35 correct) and Patridge in a pear tree for the Christmas theme - Danny Bonaduce.

The choices:
Passengerside Door
Driverside Door
Back End
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • #37
Doodle Bob: My point, however, was that the contestants may not have gotten the question wrong more to having not understood the question and just guessing rather than math illiteracy.

I suppose. There was not much time given to that question. The main contestant seemed to at first have mumbled something to suggest she knew the correct answer, but then all that Santa and sleigh part confused her, and she must have thought it a trick question.

As for a previous question on "claustrophobia," all but one seemed able to get that.
 
Last edited:
  • #38
It's not only math. I remember a game show in which the question was "Namd this nation directly east of Germany". Answer: " Uhh--- Germany?"

I'm going to be generous and attribute this as well as other silly answers to nervousness. No telling how I would answer if I had television cameras pointing at me!
 
  • #39
From Gokul: "Santa just parallel parked his sleigh. Which part of the car is perpendicular to the curb?
a. the driver's side door
b. the passenger's side door
c. the back end"

This is a bit better than RI's recollection of the problem. But, again, we run into the problem of how to interpret the relative positions of the doors: they can be opened after all so as to be perpendicular to the curb.

Incidentally, these are not trivial matters. I have been on several committees involved with the Achievement Exams for the Ohio Department of Education. And one of the truly difficult parts of writing these exams is generating problems whose forms will minimize semantic and set-up difficulties and actually assess the test-takers knowledge of the mathematical content. For high-stakes tests like these, the amount of overthinking and stress can often cause the most mathematically literate people stumble over problems that are poorly worded or ill-posed.

A poignant example was a problem that referred to a child's "backyard." A great deal of students, living in urban apartment buildings, didn't have a clue as to what a backyard was and found the problem inordinately difficult. Granted the word "backyard" should be in most people's vocabulary, but nevertheless it was a math exam not a vocabulary exam.
 
  • #40
G. H. Hardy's sister Gertrude Edith Hardy once wrote the following about "the self-satisfied ignorance she found among some students":

There is a girl I can't abide.
Her name? I'll be discreet.
I feel I'd need some savoir dire
Should I her parents meet!

...

She says "I never could do Maths.
When Daddy was at school
He could not add!" I'd love to say
"Then Daddy was a fool!"

"In dictee I got minus two;
There's not a verb I know;
I always write the future tense
Of 'rego', 'regebo'

"But then my Mother cannot write
Or speak a foreign tongue."
Sweet maid, how much the world had gained
If they had both died young!


(this is taken from the book "The Man Who Knew Infinity" by Robert Kanigel)
 
Last edited:
  • #41
HallsofIvy said:
It's not only math. I remember a game show in which the question was "Namd this nation directly east of Germany". Answer: " Uhh--- Germany?"

I'm going to be generous and attribute this as well as other silly answers to nervousness. No telling how I would answer if I had television cameras pointing at me!

Were there any more clues? That alone could make it either the Czech Republic or Poland.
 

Similar threads

Pascal grade 9 math contest question(can you ratio speed and time)
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
3K
Challenge Math Challenge - December 2018
  • · Replies 67 ·
3
Replies
67
Views
16K