Maximally strong fundamental theorem

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a conjecture related to a maximally strong version of the fundamental theorem of calculus, specifically concerning the conditions under which the integral of the derivative of a function equals the difference of the function's values at the endpoints of its domain. The scope includes theoretical exploration and potential proofs or counterexamples.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a conjecture that if a function is differentiable and its derivative is Lebesgue integrable, then the integral of the derivative equals the difference of the function's values at the endpoints.
  • Another participant asks for clarification on how this conjecture differs from the ordinary fundamental theorem of calculus.
  • Some participants express belief in the conjecture's validity but suggest searching for a proof, referencing external resources.
  • A participant notes that the ordinary fundamental theorem requires the derivative to be Riemann integrable, while the conjecture's assumptions involve Lebesgue integrability, which they suggest complicates the situation.
  • One participant recalls having previously developed a proof for the conjecture but expresses uncertainty about its correctness.
  • Another participant mentions that the theorem seems to assume the derivative is continuous, which may affect the validity of the conjecture.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of confidence in the conjecture's truth, with some believing it to be true while others remain uncertain. There is no consensus on the validity of the conjecture or the correctness of proposed proofs.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the complexity introduced by the assumption of Lebesgue integrability compared to Riemann integrability, and there are references to previous threads and external resources that may contain relevant proofs or discussions.

jostpuur
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This is still not clear to me. Here's the conjecture:


Assume that [itex]f:[a,b]\to\mathbb{R}[/itex] is such function that it is differentiable at all points of its domain, and that

[tex] \int\limits_{[a,b]}|f'(x)|dm(x) < \infty[/tex]

holds, where the integral is the ordinary Lebesgue integral. Then also

[tex] \int\limits_{[a,b]}f'(x)dm(x) = f(b)-f(a)[/tex]

holds.


True or not? I don't know a proof, and I don't know a counter example.
 
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Can you explain the difference between this and the ordinary fundamental theorem of calculus, because I can't see it.
 
hmm... I just realized that actually I did have a proof for this. I had only forgotten about it and lost it, hehe :-p (I'm still not sure if the proof is right though...)

The difference is in the assumptions.

In the ordinary theorem it is assumed that the derivative is Riemann integrable.

The theorem can be made slightly stronger pretty easily by only assuming that the derivative is bounded.

But when you only assume that the derivative is Lebesgue integrable, stuff gets serious.
 
UltrafastPED said:
I think its true, but you can search for a proof:
http://www.math.ucsd.edu/~bdriver/231-02-03/Lecture_Notes/PDE-Anal-Book/analpde1.pdf

see theorem 8.40, though it uses different notation

This theorem seems to assume that the derivative is continuous.

My own proof was in this thread from the summer: https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=696481&page=2 I had forgotten about this, but I checked my old threads now... There was one intermediate result whose proof was left uncertain.
 

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