MC34063A Switch Regulator: Questions & Answers

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the MC34063A switching regulator, exploring its operation, configurations (step-up, step-down, inverting), and related concepts. Participants seek to understand the functionality, design considerations, and potential applications of switching regulators, as well as specific questions regarding component values and circuit behavior.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Experimental/applied

Main Points Raised

  • One participant requests visual resources or animations to better understand the operation of switching regulators, particularly the MC34063A.
  • Questions are raised about the implications of using inductors larger than the minimum specified value (L(min)), including potential drawbacks beyond cost and size.
  • Participants discuss the behavior of currents in step-up and step-down configurations, with assumptions about efficiency and ideal conditions.
  • Clarification is sought on the current flow in the inverting configuration, with specific scenarios presented for analysis.
  • Concerns are expressed about the relationship between output voltage, switching frequency, and ripple, particularly regarding the use of a potentiometer for variable output.
  • Questions arise about the effects of inaccurately chosen Rsc values on the oscillator and overall circuit performance.
  • Participants inquire about the behavior of the regulator when the input voltage exceeds the output voltage in step-up configurations, and vice versa for step-down configurations.
  • Discussion includes mention of SEPIC converters, which can handle input voltages that are either higher or lower than the output voltage.
  • Further inquiries are made regarding the classification of the MC34063 and the necessity for separate configurations for step-up and step-down operations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various viewpoints and questions, indicating that the discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing ideas and uncertainties regarding the operation and design of the MC34063A and similar regulators.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the complexity of switching regulators, noting that assumptions about efficiency and ideal conditions may not hold in practical applications. The interdependencies of component values and circuit behavior are acknowledged but not fully resolved.

Who May Find This Useful

Individuals interested in power electronics, circuit design, and those looking to deepen their understanding of switching regulators and their configurations may find this discussion beneficial.

Jiggy-Ninja
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Specifically, this switching reg as an example, though these questions may apply to others: http://www.sparkfun.com/datasheets/IC/MC34063A.pdf

Switching regulators weren't covered very well in my class, and they're significantly more complicated than linear regulators (which also makes them a bit more interesting), so I'm trying to go over the datasheet and take advantage of this forum to learn some more. Brace yourselves, for this is a long one.

First off, is there a website that has a series of pictures of an animation of some kind that shows, in detail, how a switching reg like this works? How the currents flow and voltages work to keep it operating? I'm a very visual person, and many of these questions might be able to be answered if I had a better spatial/chronological picture of how these things work. Or is there a part like this in Multisim? I haven't foundone, or I would have run some of these experiments myself.

Inductor values in the datasheet are listed as L(min). The use of (min) implies that any inductance larger than the calculated value would work. How far can this be taken? If I calculate L(min) as 100uH, would 100mH work just as well? Or, taking things even more extreme, 100H? From a theoretical and practical standpoint, what drawbacks (aside from cost/size) are there for choosing an inductor that is too large, if any?

There are separate configurations for step-up, step-down, and inverting configurations.

For the step-up and step-down configurations, I assume that the voltages and currents act "transformerish" (for lack of a more eloquent description). To simplify, let's assume 100% efficiency with a smooth action (infinite frequency with no pulsing or ripple).

For a step-up configuration, 5V input to 10V output, the regulator will draw 2A from its source for every 1A it pushes out to the load.

For step-down, 10V input to 5V output, the opposite. 1A of current is drawn for every 2A pushed to the load.

For the inverting configuration (page 8), how do the currents for that flow? Say it has 5V input with -5V output. Will 1A be drawn from the source, 1A will be drawn from the load, and 2A flow out of the ground? Bump the input up to 10V. Will it then draw 1A from the load, 0.5A from the source, with 1.5A flowing out of ground?

Staying on the inverting configuration for now, a naive interpretation of the Vout formula shown on page 10 suggests that I could use a potentiometer for R2 to make a variable output inverting switching regulator that could provide an adjustable output from -1.25V on up (or down, depending on your perspective) in the same style as the LM137 and 337 linear regulators.

On further inspection, the value of Vout affects the calculation for ton/toff, which in turn affects the calculation for Ipk(switch), which in turn affects the calculation for Rsc, and in general seems to have a more complicated relationship with the whole thing than I originally thought.

Furthermore, the CT formula implies that ton remains constant, so adjusting the output voltage in that way will affect the switching frequency, and therefore the output ripple. The ripple problem can be compensated for by having a larger output capacitor, so I'm not too worried about that.

The Rsc thing seems like it might be a problem, but I'm not entirely sure how it relates to all this. It's connected to the oscillator, but I don't really know what it's doing to the oscillator. All I know is that it's a current sensing resistor. What effects would an inaccurately chosen Rsc value (too high and too low) have?

Almost finished, I promise. :biggrin: Moving on to the step-up and step-down configurations, they too, at a naive first glance, look like they could be made adjustable, but a similar tangle of calculation interconnections exist that complicate the whole thing. And the most obvious problem:

What happens if, with a step-up configuration, the input voltage becomes higher than the output voltage? (Ex. 5V out, 10V in).

Opposite scenario with a step-down configuration? (Ex. 5V out, 3.3V in)

Thanks for your time. :smile:
 
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This is a very big subject but you have the right outlook for investigating it.

In the datasheet, the circuit first connects the inductor across the input supply. Current begins to flow through it inceasing as a ramp in time. When the current reaches a certain value set by the sensing resistor and the chip, the transistor in the chip turns off. The current in the inductor keeps flowing though so it makes the voltage on the inductor "fly up" to the voltage on the 330uF capacitor. The inductor then releases it's current on a decreasing ramp into this capacitor and the result is a voltage-boosting power supply.

The other parts are involved in the regulation.
 
Antiphon said:
This is a very big subject but you have the right outlook for investigating it.

In the datasheet, the circuit first connects the inductor across the input supply. Current begins to flow through it inceasing as a ramp in time. When the current reaches a certain value set by the sensing resistor and the chip, the transistor in the chip turns off. The current in the inductor keeps flowing though so it makes the voltage on the inductor "fly up" to the voltage on the 330uF capacitor. The inductor then releases it's current on a decreasing ramp into this capacitor and the result is a voltage-boosting power supply.

The other parts are involved in the regulation.
The basics for step-up and inverting seem simple enough. I just need to take a second look at step-down.

That still leaves the question (along with all the others in my post): For step-up, what happens if Vin becomes higher than Vout?
 
Jiggy-Ninja said:
The basics for step-up and inverting seem simple enough. I just need to take a second look at step-down.

That still leaves the question (along with all the others in my post): For step-up, what happens if Vin becomes higher than Vout?
In SEPIC (Single Ended Primary Inductance Converter) converters, the output voltage can be either higher or lower than the input voltage. See

http://www.national.com/an/AN/AN-1484.pdf

Bob S
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Bob S said:
In SEPIC (Single Ended Primary Inductance Converter) converters, the output voltage can be either higher or lower than the input voltage. See

http://www.national.com/an/AN/AN-1484.pdf

Bob S
The same configuration can have an input voltage higher or lower than the output?

That still leaves a couple questions (in addition to the several others I raised in my post):

1) What class of regulator is the MC34063 (and others like it)?

2) Why does the MC34063 need two separate configurations for step-up and step-down? What happens if you set it up in the wrong configuration?

I decided to get a couple http://www.onsemi.com/pub_link/Collateral/NCP3063-D.PDF" from Digikey and conduct some breadboard experiments with them (datasheet says they are an upgrade to the one I posted, so they should work similarly). Even so, if anyone has the answers now that'd be great, so I can know more about what to look for in the experiments and interpret the results better.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

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