Meaning of division by non-whole real numbers

logicgate
Messages
14
Reaction score
2
TL;DR
How does the interpretation of division (a/b) as a divided equally into b equal parts each of size a/b work when b is a non whole real number like e/pi for example ?
We're all familiar with positive integer division like for example 12/3 mean 12 is split into 3 equal groups each of size 4. But what about division by non whole real numbers like pi divided by e ? Can we interpret it the same way as we did with 12/3 ? Can we interpret pi/e as pi is divided into e equal groups each of size pi/e ? Division by non whole reals doesn't make sense to me.
 
Mathematics news on Phys.org
logicgate said:
Can we interpret pi/e as pi is divided into e equal groups each of size pi/e ?
You have e of pi/e in 1 pi, if that's what you mean.
logicgate said:
Division by non whole reals doesn't make sense to me.
How would you compute the diameter of a circle from a known circumference?
 
Are you comfortable with long division using pencil and paper? My generation was taught how to do this.

There is no problem in principle with carrying out this process using infinitely long decimal expansions. Just do it to ten decimal digits and compute ten (or so) digits of the quotient. Go back and extend all of those calculations to twenty decimal digits. And continue the long division until you have twenty (or so) digits of the quotient.

Repeat ad infinitum. That is one process.

Or, pretty much equivalently, truncate the dividend and divisor to ten digits each. Do an division and write down ten (or so) digits of quotient. Repeat, truncating to twenty digits each this time. Then thirty. And so on. The limit you approach is the true quotient.

If you are a mathematician there is a different approach that can be taken. One way of formally constructing the real numbers is as a set of equivalence classes of Cauchy sequences of rational numbers. [A "Cauchy" sequence is one in which all of the terms tend to end up all being arbitrarily close to one another -- for any positive epsilon (closeness) there is a delta (point in the sequence) beyond which all of the terms are within epsilon of one another].

Two Cauchy sequences are judged to be "equivalent" if one can interleave their terms and wind up with a Cauchy sequence.

Using this construction, pi is the equivalence class of Cauchy sequences that includes the exemplar: ( 3.0, 3.1, 3.14, 3.141, 3.1415, 3.14159, ...). Meanwhile, e is the equivalence class that includes the exemplar: (2.0, 2.7, 2.71, 2.718, 2.7182, 2.71828, ...).

One can define division for real numbers constructed in this manner by taking the limit of the term by term quotients of any two respective exemplars. For instance, pi/e would be the limit of (3.0/2.0, 3.1/2.7, 3.14/2.71, 3.141/2.718, 3.1415/2.7182, 3.14159/2.71828, ...)

A bit of care would need to go into worrying about division by zero and proving that every pair of exemplars yields an equivalent result.

Alternately and perhaps more conveniently one could work to first define multiplication and then define division as the inverse operation. I honestly cannot remember how we did it when I took that class. I think it was this way.

An alternate construction uses Dedekind cuts. The definition for multiplication is not difficult, but dealing with sign problems makes it somewhat inelegant for my taste. For the product of two positive real numbers, you basically form the lower cut from the set of products of non-negative rational pairs drawn from the lower cuts of the two factors. The upper cut is whatever positive numbers are left over. Division is then defined as the inverse of multiplication in the appropriate sense.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
  • Informative
Likes   Reactions: DaveE and FactChecker
You can approximate it with a sequence of integer divisions. Long division by hand does that -- never going over and keeping track of the remainder, then continuing with an integer division of the remainder. You can get as close to the answer as you want.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: jbriggs444
A simple and clear understanding occurred to me many many many years ago. Dividend, Divisor, Quotient. How many of the divisor are contained in the dividend, INCLUDING any fractional part?

I could say more, but at present I avoid doing so.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
3K
  • · Replies 85 ·
3
Replies
85
Views
10K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
3K
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
Replies
1
Views
4K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 17 ·
Replies
17
Views
4K
  • · Replies 34 ·
2
Replies
34
Views
10K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K