Meaning of ds^2 according to Carroll

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the interpretation of the line element \( ds^2 \) as presented in Sean Carroll's General Relativity book, particularly in the context of curved spacetime metrics. Participants explore the mathematical and conceptual implications of defining \( ds^2 \) in terms of basis dual vectors versus differentials, and the nature of the metric tensor in this framework.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question whether Carroll's treatment of \( ds^2 \) is as handwavy as his earlier explanations, noting a lack of rigorous justification.
  • Others argue that the mathematical formulation using coordinate dual basis vectors is correct, while the use of differentials is not appropriate for contracting with the metric tensor.
  • There is confusion regarding the definition of \( ds^2 \) as a scalar versus the metric tensor being an (0,2) tensor, with some asserting that \( ds^2 \) should be interpreted as a contraction of the metric tensor with two tangent vectors rather than dual vectors.
  • Participants discuss the notation used by Carroll, with some suggesting it serves as shorthand for the metric tensor, while others express concern that this notation may not be universally accepted in the context of General Relativity.
  • One participant proposes that to relate \( ds^2 \) to the length along a curve, a differential increment \( dt^2 \) should be included in the expression, indicating a need for clarity in the relationship between the curve parameter and the corresponding distance on the manifold.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally express disagreement on the interpretation of \( ds^2 \) and its relationship to the metric tensor and differentials. Multiple competing views remain regarding the appropriate mathematical treatment and physical interpretation of \( ds^2 \).

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the discussion regarding the assumptions made about the nature of tensors and the notation used, which may lead to misunderstandings about the relationships between different mathematical objects in General Relativity.

  • #31
Of course you have to distinguish the symbols. I'm an advocate of the good old Ricci calculus, because there it's much more intuitive. What I used, however in my previous postings in this thread is Cartan calculus on manifolds for the special case of holonomous coordinates. There the symbol ##\mathrm{d} q^{\mu}## is a tangent-space dual vector, i.e., a one-form, i.e., a linear mapping from tangent space at a point on the manifold, parametrized with real generalized coordinates ##q^{\mu}##. The holonomous tangent-space basis at the point defined by the tangent vectors of the coordinate lines, i.e., keeping all ##q^{\mu}## constant except one. This basis is denoted by ##\partial_{\mu}##. By definition the dual basis ##\mathrm{d} q^{\mu}## maps these holonomous basis vectors as follows ##\mathrm{d} q^{\mu}(\partial_{\nu})={\delta^{\mu}}_{\nu}##, where the latter symbol is the usual Kronecker ##\delta##.

In the Ricci calculus the ##\mathrm{d} q^{\mu}## are simply infinitesimal increments of the coordinates and thus
$$\mathrm{d} s^2=g_{\mu \nu} \mathrm{d} q^{\mu} \mathrm{d} q^{\nu}.$$
I've given the derivation of this in the Cartan calculus also in my previous posting.
 
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  • #32
Thanks for that reference to MTW, Peter.. It becomes clearer to me as time goes on why that book is the bible of GR.
 

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