Measure the speed of earth in universe

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of measuring the speed of Earth in the universe, particularly in relation to the cosmic microwave background (CMB) and the implications of relative motion. Participants explore theoretical approaches and historical experiments related to measuring absolute velocity.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes using an electrostatic sphere and a sensitive magnetometer in a screened magnetic field to measure Earth's transverse speed in the universe.
  • Another participant argues that the concept of 'speed in the universe' lacks meaning since all motion is relative, referencing the Michelson-Morley experiment which found no evidence of absolute motion.
  • It is noted that Earth is moving with respect to the CMB at a speed of approximately 370 km/s towards the constellation Leo, though the significance of this measurement is questioned.
  • Some participants express skepticism about the practical implications of measuring Earth's speed, suggesting that while it is a physical fact, it may not have meaningful consequences.
  • Historical context is provided regarding experiments from the late 19th century that led to conclusions about the relativity principle and the development of Lorentz transformations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the validity and significance of measuring Earth's speed in the universe. While some acknowledge the measurement of speed relative to the CMB, others question the meaningfulness of such measurements and the concept of absolute velocity.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved questions regarding the implications of measuring speed in relation to the CMB and the definitions of motion being used. The discussion reflects a range of assumptions about the nature of velocity and its relevance in physics.

snofox
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suppose an electrostatic sphere and an very sensitive magnetometer are placed in a space that has magnetic field outside been screened ideally. Can we know the speed of the Earth transverse in the universe by dealing with the data obtained?
 
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I thought it was established that there is no real meaning to 'speed in the universe'. All motion is relative. Michleson and Morley (1887) did a famous experiment to determine our speed through the 'aether' and detected nothing. Afaik, no one has proved otherwise.
 
It is already known that we are moving with respect to the CMB, which is about as close as one could reasonably get to any definition of "speed in the universe", and that speed is pretty well known. In any event it is of no consequence that I am aware of.
 
Which direction?
 
370km/s in the direction of Leo, apparently, is what the doppler shift indicates. But what does that actually mean? See this link from some while ago, on PF.
 
snofox said:
suppose an electrostatic sphere and an very sensitive magnetometer are placed in a space that has magnetic field outside been screened ideally. Can we know the speed of the Earth transverse in the universe by dealing with the data obtained?

Hi welcome to physicsforums! :smile:

Such experiments were done in the late 19the century and no effect was found at all. That led to the conclusion that the relativity principle must also be valid for electromagnetic effects - thus no "absolute velocity" can be measured. And from that emerged the Lorentz transformations and special relativity.
 
sophiecentaur said:
370km/s in the direction of Leo, apparently, is what the doppler shift indicates. But what does that actually mean? See this link from some while ago, on PF.

As I said, I don't think it has any significance. I mean, it is a physical fact, but it has no practical consequences.
 
Last edited:
phinds said:
As I said, I don't thing it has any significance. I mean, it is a physical fact, but it has no practical consequences.
I agree.
 

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