Measure the volume of a lighter than air balloon

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating the volume of a helium-filled balloon, specifically when the balloon is inflated to a percentage of its maximum volume. Participants explore various methods and considerations related to pressure, temperature, and the characteristics of the balloon.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confidence in having enough known variables (storage tank volume, initial and final pressures) to solve the problem but struggles with the calculation.
  • Another participant seeks clarification on whether the balloon is fully inflated or only partially, emphasizing the need to confirm the achieved volume percentage.
  • A participant questions the pressure inside the balloon, the elasticity of the balloon envelope, and the temperature of the helium, noting that helium will cool during transfer, affecting volume.
  • Two methods for calculating the volume are proposed:
    • Method 1 suggests weighing the helium storage cylinders before and after filling the balloon to determine the moles of helium transferred, then converting this to volume based on temperature and pressure.
    • Method 2 involves using the ideal gas law (PV=nRT) to relate the pressure reduction in the cylinders to the moles of helium transferred, adjusting for the balloon's temperature and pressure.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants have not reached a consensus on the best approach to calculate the balloon's volume, and multiple methods and considerations are presented without resolution.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the importance of knowing whether pressures are absolute or gauge, the balloon's temperature during filling, and the balloon's physical characteristics, which may affect the calculations.

psuedoben
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hello, i am trying to calculate the volume of a balloon (which is quite large). It has been filled with helium via a valve connecting helium storage tanks to the balloon. The knowns I have are the volume of the storage tanks, the intital pressure in the tanks, and the final pressure in the tanks after filling the balloon. I am confident there are enough knowns here to solve this problem and my gut feeling is that its a pretty straightforward solution too. despite this, i cannot seem to solve it.
 
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Measure the balloon ?
 
I'm sorry Nidum, I suppose I left out a key detail. I don't want to fully inflate the balloon. I want to inflate it to a percentage of its maximum volume and then confirm that I've achieved that percentage by doing this calculation
 
What is the pressure in balloon? Is the balloon envelope elastic and under tension with greater than atmospheric pressure, or is the balloon a bag with a slack surface at 1 atm?
What is the balloon temperature? As He is transferred it will cool, so volume will be less until it equilibrates.
Is the pressure in the cylinder measured absolute or gauge, above atmospheric?

Method 1.
You could weigh the cylinders, fill the balloon, then weigh the cylinders again. The weight reduction will give the moles of He transferred. Convert moles to volume at balloon temperature and pressure.

Method 2.
Absolute pressure in cylinders will be proportional to helium content. PV=nRT.
Pressure reduction will give moles of He transferred = volume of balloon, adjusted for pressure and temp.
 
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