Meteorology Physics: Apparent wind problem

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SUMMARY

The forum discussion centers on the concept of apparent wind in meteorology physics, specifically regarding how a particle of air interacts with both ship wind and true wind. Participants clarify that apparent wind is the air's movement relative to a moving object, while true wind is the air's movement relative to the Earth's surface. The consensus is that when calculating the movement of a particle, only true wind should be considered, as it is independent of the ship's motion. The discussion emphasizes the importance of understanding frames of reference in wind dynamics.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of meteorological terms: true wind and apparent wind
  • Basic knowledge of vector addition in physics
  • Familiarity with frames of reference in motion
  • Concept of relative velocity in moving systems
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  • Study the principles of vector addition in physics
  • Learn about the effects of relative motion on wind dynamics
  • Explore meteorological models that incorporate true and apparent wind
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This discussion is beneficial for students studying meteorology, physics enthusiasts, and professionals in maritime navigation who need to understand the dynamics of wind relative to moving vessels.

Sofina
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Homework Statement
A ship is moving South (S) with Ship Velocity S.V = 15m/s . The apparent wind is southwest (SW) with velocity A.W.=26m/s. This goes on for one hour and after, the ships turns (assume instantly) direction to Northeast (NE) and goes on for half an hour.
a)There is a wind particle that at time t=0s is where the ships at this time. How much distance has the particle traveled after 1 and a half hour?
b) How much is the True Wind and in which direction?
c)How much is the Apparent Wind after the ship turned?
Relevant Equations
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Hello everyone.
Sorry for the mistakes on my English on this post and on the H/W statements (it is translated by me).
I have a homework problem on Meterology Physics, about a ship's Apparent Wind , and it is about the a) question and maybe i don't know well the theory to solve this problem.
(I have solved the b) & c) question)

So.. I have a solution in my mind but I am not sure if it is right.
For my solution I assume that, at the time t=0s , the particle interacts both with the Ship Wind and the True Wind, so it moves with the Apparent Wind velocity for some seconds. (And after I assume that the True Wind interacts again, so the final velocity of the particle is the velocity sum of Apparent Wind velocity and True Wind Velocity.)

Is it right to assume that the ship wind interacts with the particle?
Or is it only the True Wind that interacts with it?
 
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Sofina said:
the particle interacts both with the Ship Wind and the True Wind
That is such an odd view that I wonder whether you understand what these terms mean.
It is just about frames of reference. True Wind is the movement of the air relative to Earth's surface; apparent wind is the air's movement relative to the ship.
When it asks how far a particle of air moves in a given time, that is relative to the Earth. The particle doesn't care what the ship is doing.
 
haruspex said:
That is such an odd view that I wonder whether you understand what these terms mean.
It is just about frames of reference. True Wind is the movement of the air relative to Earth's surface; apparent wind is the air's movement relative to the ship.
When it asks how far a particle of air moves in a given time, that is relative to the Earth. The particle doesn't care what the ship is doing.

Thank you for your answer.

yes, I think I haven't understood how the ship wind works.
Can the ship wind, the wind that is made of any moving thing, affects its surroundings? (yes?)

My point of view (that I, also, thought was odd) is that the particle is affected both by the Ship Wind and by the True wind at this moment (t=0s), so the outcome is the velocity vector sum of these two.

The professor told us that almost none solved this problem last year, so I tried to think something more complicated.
The other solution that I thought is that the particle is only affected by the true wind so it goes with it's velocity, but I thought (maybe) it was too simple thinking?
 
Sofina said:
I haven't understood how the ship wind works.
By ship wind I assume you mean apparent wind.
Suppose there is no wind. If you cycle at S 20km/h you will feel a wind of 20km/h on your face, because that is the relative velocity you have to the air. This is the apparent wind to you.
If there is actually a crosswind from the E you will feel an apparent wind from some angle towards SE.
Sofina said:
the particle is affected both by the Ship Wind and by the True wind
Ship wind and true wind are just two views of the same thing. Which the particle is affected by depends on your view, but in no view is it affected by both.

To make it easy, suppose the ship is going E at 10km/h and the true wind is from the S at 10km/h.
To an observer on the ship the particle is affected by ship wind, 14km/h from the SE. After one hour the particle is 10km N of the observer because of the true wind and 10km W because of the ship's movement, making it 14km NW, as expected based on ship wind.
To an observer on the shore, there is only the true wind. The ship is irrelevant. After one hour the particle is 10km N.
Sofina said:
The other solution that I thought is that the particle is only affected by the true wind so it goes with it's velocity
Although it doesn't specifically say so, question a is asking how far the particle has moved relative to Earth's surface. So yes, just use true wind.
 
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