Momentum in a mass resting on the Earth's surface

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the dynamics of a mass resting on a bar that is positioned on the Earth's surface. Participants explore the conditions under which the bar may topple, considering factors such as momentum, gravity, and stability. The conversation includes theoretical considerations and challenges regarding the forces at play in this scenario.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that the mass at the top of the bar has higher momentum due to its higher velocity and mass, potentially causing the bar to topple when stabilizing forces are removed.
  • Another participant counters that the reason for the bar toppling is not related to momentum from the Earth's rotation but rather due to instability and gravity.
  • A follow-up question is posed regarding what causes instability if the bar is initially balanced on the Earth's surface.
  • Participants mention various factors that could contribute to instability, such as the bar not being flat on the end and small air motions affecting the bar.
  • A hypothetical scenario is discussed where the bar is balanced in a vacuum on a level surface, questioning whether it would still topple due to the rotation of the Earth.
  • A participant emphasizes that momentum is not a force and references Newton's laws to clarify this distinction.
  • Another participant asserts that a mass sitting on a bar will not necessarily topple over.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the role of momentum and gravity in the toppling of the bar, indicating that multiple competing perspectives remain without a consensus on the primary cause of instability.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes assumptions about the conditions under which the bar is balanced, such as the surface being level and the presence of external forces. These assumptions are not fully resolved, leaving uncertainty about their impact on the scenario.

starz_above
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Hi all,

I'm trying to understand how the forces can modeled in a mass which is resting on the Earth's surface. Please see attached diagram.

It can be assumed that the mass is fixed to the bar and that bar is free to move where it is resting on the Earth's surface.

According to my thinking the mass at the top of the bar has higher momentum due to a higher velocity and mass than that which is at the bottom of the bar, hence this should cause the bar to topple over once any stabilising force is removed.

Am I correct in thinking this?

Thanks for any help.
 

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The reason for the bar to topple over isn't momentum due to the rotation of the earth, it is because of instability and gravity.
 
Drakkith said:
The reason for the bar to topple over isn't momentum due to the rotation of the earth, it is because of instability and gravity.

What would cause the instability if initially the bar was balanced on the surface of the earth?
 
The bar not being flat on the end, small motions in the air resulting in net force on the bar, not putting it on a level surface, and a thousand other little reasons.
 
Drakkith said:
The bar not being flat on the end, small motions in the air resulting in net force on the bar, not putting it on a level surface, and a thousand other little reasons.

OK, so if the bar was balanced in a vacuum and the surface was level and all other little reasons were accounted for then would that mean that the bar would not fall over due to the rotation of the Earth?

I was thinking that because there was higher angular momentum in the mass compared to the base of the bar it would cause it to fall over.
 
Momentum is not force. Check out Newton's first law and second law.
 
A mass sitting on a bar will not necessarily topple over.
 

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