Monotonicity of the riemann integral

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the monotonicity of the Riemann integral, specifically whether the strict inequality holds for integrable functions under certain conditions. Participants explore the implications of the inequality when one function is strictly less than another over a closed interval.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant states that for integrable functions f and g on the interval [a, b] with f(x) < g(x) for all x in [a, b], the strict inequality \(\int_a^b f(x)\,dx < \int_a^b g(x)\,dx\) holds.
  • Another participant counters that if a = b, the strict inequality does not hold, suggesting a limitation to the generality of the claim.
  • A third participant agrees with the need for a < b condition and reiterates that the strict inequality holds under this condition.
  • One participant emphasizes that a Riemann-integrable function is continuous almost everywhere, which they argue supports the claim that the integral of a strictly positive function is positive.
  • There is a question raised about whether the assertion of obviousness regarding the strict inequality is justified.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the strict inequality, with some asserting it holds under certain conditions while others point out exceptions, indicating that the discussion remains unresolved regarding the general applicability of the strict inequality.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on the condition that a < b for the strict inequality to hold, and the potential ambiguity regarding the interpretation of "obviousness" in the context of the claims made.

Markjdb
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Hi everyone,

For integrable [tex]f,g:\left[a,b\right]\rightarrow\mathbb{R}[/tex] with [tex]f(x)\leq g(x)[/tex] for all [tex]x\in\left[a,b\right][/tex], it's a basic property of the riemann integral that
[tex]\[\int_a^b f(x)\,dx \leq \int_a^b g(x)\,dx\][/tex]

My question is whether the strict version of this inequality holds, i.e. if we have the same hypotheses as above, except with [tex]f(x)<g(x)[/tex] for all [tex]x\in\left[a,b\right][/tex], then do we get the following inequality?
[tex]\[\int_a^b f(x)\,dx < \int_a^b g(x)\,dx\][/tex]

This question arose while trying to solve a rather different problem; I feel like it's not true in general, but I haven't yet come up with a counterexample.
 
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Yes, you get the strict inequality. The integral of a positive function is obviously positive.
 
If you take a = b then the strict inequality is not true.
 
Like jg89 pointed out, it holds as long as the lower and the upper limits of integration are not the same.
 
Preno said:
Yes, you get the strict inequality. The integral of a positive function is obviously positive.

Is this obvious?

A Riemann-integrable function on [a, b] (with a < b) is continuous almost everywhere, so in particular it's continuous at one point; if this ensures that if the function is strictly positive, then its integral is positive.
 

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