Multiplication/division of matrices and vectors

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    Matrices Vectors
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the multiplication and division of matrices and vectors, specifically focusing on solving the equation Ax = b for the vector x and the matrix A. Participants explore the implications of matrix noncommutativity and the conditions under which solutions exist.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that the equation Ax = b can be solved for x as x = A-1b, provided that A is invertible.
  • Others argue against using the division symbol ÷ for matrices, emphasizing that it can lead to ambiguity due to noncommutativity.
  • It is noted that if A is not invertible, the solution for x may not exist or may not be unique.
  • Some participants assert that it is not possible to uniquely solve for A given known vectors x and b, as there are infinitely many matrices A that can satisfy the equation.
  • One participant mentions that the only scenario where A can be uniquely determined is if A is a 1×1 matrix (a scalar).

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that if A is invertible, x can be expressed as A-1b. However, there is disagreement regarding the use of the division symbol for matrices and the conditions under which A can be uniquely determined, with multiple competing views on these points.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on the invertibility of matrix A and the ambiguity introduced by noncommutativity in matrix operations. The discussion does not resolve whether the division symbol can be appropriately used in this context.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students and practitioners in mathematics and engineering who are dealing with linear algebra concepts, particularly in understanding matrix operations and their implications.

Jhenrique
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1) Let A a square matrix, x a colum vector and b another colum vector. So, I want solve for x the following equation: Ax=b
So: x=b÷A = b×A-1 And this is the answer! Or would be this the correct answer x = A-1×b ?

2) Is possible to solve the equation above for A ? How?
 
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Jhenrique said:
1) Let A a square matrix, x a colum vector and b another colum vector. So, I want solve for x the following equation: Ax=b
So: x=b÷A = b×A-1 And this is the answer! Or would be this the correct answer x = A-1×b ?

First of all, you shouldn't use the division symbol ÷ for matrices. Why not? Matrices are noncommutative. This is, it can happen that ##AB \neq BA##. The division ÷ is ambiguous in the noncommutative case, because it is unclear whether ##A##÷##B## means ##AB^{-1}## or ##B^{-1}A##. So you should always use the ##B^{-1}## notation.

Anyway, you want to solve ##A\mathbf{x} = \mathbf{b}##. First of all, ##A## might not be an invertible matrix, in which case, you can't always solve this system (and if you can, the solution might not be unique!). If your matrix is invertible, then you can multiply the equation on the left with ##A^{-1}## and you get

[tex]\mathbf{x} = A^{-1}A\mathbf{x} = A^{-1}\mathbf{b}[/tex]

Multiplying the equation on the right doesn't work since you'll get

[tex]A\mathbf{x}A^{-1} = \mathbf{b}A^{-1}[/tex]

We can't simplify the left-hand side due to noncommutativity.

2) Is possible to solve the equation above for A ? How?

If you mean that ##\mathbf{x}## and ##\mathbf{b}## are known, then no. You don't have enough data for a unique solution. That is, there will be many solutions to this problem.
 
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Jhenrique said:
2) Is possible to solve the equation above for A ? How?
micromass said:
If you mean that ##\mathbf{x}## and ##\mathbf{y}## are known, then no. You don't have enough data for a unique solution. That is, there will be many solutions to this problem.
The equation that was referred to was Ax = b, so if x and b are known, there is not a unique matrix A.
 
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Jhenrique said:
1) Let A a square matrix, x a colum vector and b another colum vector. So, I want solve for x the following equation: Ax=b
So: x=b÷A = b×A-1 And this is the answer!
That is not the answer. The only way what you wrote would make sense is if A is a 1×1 matrix; i.e., a scalar.

Or would be this the correct answer x = A-1×b ?
That's correct -- if A is invertible.
2) Is possible to solve the equation above for A ? How?
Only if A is a 1×1 matrix. For an N×N matrix, where N>1, the answer is no (not uniquely). Ax=b represents N equations, but you have N2 unknowns.
 
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Jhenrique said:
How can I reach the same conclusion?
micromass answered this question in post #2.

If Ax = b, and A is invertible, then multiply on the left by A-1.
 
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Mark44 said:
The equation that was referred to was Ax = b, so if x and b are known, there is not a unique matrix A.

Aah, thanks you very much! I really need to proof read my posts better. I'll change my post.
 
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Mark44 said:
micromass answered this question in post #2.

If Ax = b, and A is invertible, then multiply on the left by A-1.

Yeah! sorry... I not seen, I'm reading now!

Edit: thanks for everyone from topic!

Edit2: So, Independent of the uniqueness, you are saying that is not possible to isolate A in Ax=b ?
 
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