Nabla operator and working with it

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    Nabla Operator
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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the nabla operator (∇) and its treatment as a vector in various mathematical contexts, particularly in relation to vector calculus identities and derivations. Participants explore methods of deriving product rules involving the nabla operator and express concerns about the subtleties of its application.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a product rule involving the nabla operator and seeks a direct derivation method, suggesting the use of a known vector identity.
  • Another participant proposes that using summation convention is an effective way to derive results involving the nabla operator, noting that it simplifies the process.
  • A participant acknowledges their unfamiliarity with summation notation and expresses intent to adopt it for future derivations.
  • Concerns are raised about the validity of the expression ∇.A = A.∇, with a participant noting that this does not hold for the nabla operator as it is not a true vector.
  • There is a reference to the nature of the nabla operator as a set of operators acting on vectors, emphasizing its distinct properties compared to standard vectors.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the treatment of the nabla operator, with some agreeing on the utility of summation convention while others highlight the complexities involved in its application. The discussion does not reach a consensus on a single method for deriving the product rules.

Contextual Notes

Participants indicate that the derivation of identities involving the nabla operator may depend on the context and the specific mathematical treatment used, such as summation convention versus traditional vector manipulation.

jink
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While using the ∇ operator, most of the times we can treat it as a vector. I came across a few formulae(basically product rules)..
Code:
∇×([B]A[/B]×[B]B[/B])=([B]B[/B].∇)[B]A[/B]-([B]A[/B].∇)[B]B[/B]+[B]A[/B](∇.[B]B[/B])-[B]B[/B](∇.[B]A[/B])
where A and B are vectors

I wanted to know if there is any direct way of deriving it. By direct I mean assuming the basic vector identity
Code:
[B]C[/B]×([B]B[/B]×[B]A[/B])=[B]B[/B]([B]C[/B].[B]A[/B])-[B]A[/B]([B]C[/B].[B]B[/B])
. Any other better way is also fine. I derived it by splitting each of the vectors A, B, and ∇(although this is not truly a vector) in their orthogonal components and then doing the appropriate cross products.
 
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The best way to derive these results is to use summation convention. Everything drops out quite nicely.

The vector identity you've stated is also derived in the same way but you'll notice the subtleties of the fact that you're dealing with an operator when doing the derivation.
 
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The best way to derive these results is to use summation convention
Thanks for the idea. I have never really used summation notation, always expanded terms and got my way through. Will try summation from now on.

but you'll notice the subtleties of the fact that you're dealing with an operator when doing the derivation
I realized one thing that ∇.A=A.∇ doesn't hold in this case while it holds with vectors.

The vector identity you've stated is also derived in the same way
yeah that's fine, I just wanted to think if there is any result which we can exploit using the fact that ∇ behaves as a vector(well, almost). I was just worried that incase I forget the long identity, and I want to use it, I won't be able to derive it quickly.
 
I realized one thing that ∇.A=A.∇ doesn't hold in this case while it holds with vectors.That's because Del isn't really a vector; it's a set of operators which work on vectors.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Del
 
Yeah right.
 

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