Directional derivative and gradient definition confusion

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concepts of directional derivatives and gradients in the context of multivariable calculus. Participants explore definitions, physical interpretations, and applications of these mathematical concepts.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about the definitions and physical meanings of directional derivatives and gradients, seeking clarification beyond mathematical equations.
  • Another participant suggests referring to standard textbooks or Wikipedia for foundational information on the topics.
  • A different participant emphasizes that the gradient and directional derivative are mathematical constructs, useful for describing physical phenomena but not inherently physical themselves.
  • It is proposed that the directional derivative represents how a function changes in a specified direction, while the gradient indicates the direction of the steepest ascent and its rate of change.
  • One participant provides a concrete example using elevation in a hilly landscape to illustrate the gradient as a vector indicating steepest slope and the directional derivative as the slope in a specified direction.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the best way to define or interpret the concepts, with some emphasizing mathematical definitions while others seek more intuitive, physical explanations.

Contextual Notes

Participants express varying levels of understanding and seek different types of explanations, indicating a range of familiarity with the concepts. The discussion reflects differing approaches to learning and interpreting mathematical definitions.

thegreengineer
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Recently I started with multivariable calculus; where I have seen concepts like multivariable function, partial derivative, and so on. A week ago we saw the following concept: directional derivative. Ok, I know the math behind this as well as the way to compute the directional derivative through the dot product of the gradient and the unit vector:

Duf(x,y)=∇f(x,y)⋅u​
Where:
  • Duf(x,y) represents the directional derivative
  • ∇f(x,y) represents the gradient
  • u represents the unit vector
Ok, I know the equation, but my questions are the following: what's exactly a directional derivative? what's a gradient? for what are they used?

Thanks.
 
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Dude, these links only say what they are in equations! I mean, for example, we can define the integral as the area below the curve of a function f, the derivative is a tangent line in a point in a graph, I'm asking how do we physically define a directional derivative and a gradient.
 
The gradient and directional derivative are mathematical objects. That they are very useful in describing physical phenomena is a different matter.

The directional derivative is defined just as you would expect, how the function changes for small changes of the argument in a certain direction. The gradient describes the direction in which a function changes the most and how fast it does so.
 
The idea behind the directional derivative (as opposed to a partial derivative) is that we ideally want to know how the function ##f(x, y)## is changing with respect to both ##x## and ##y##. The problem is that ##x## and ##y## may be changing at different rates, affecting the "direction", if you will.

The gradient is a vector comprised of a function's partial derivatives and is always orthogonal to a level surface (##f(x, y, z) = k##) at a point.
 
Thanks
 
MarcusAu314 said:
what's exactly a directional derivative? what's a gradient?

Using a concrete example, let f(x,y) specify the height (elevation) of points (x,y) on the ground, in a hilly landscape.

The gradient is a vector, defined at each point (x,y). The direction of the vector tells you the direction of steepest uphill slope at that point. The magnitude of the vector tells you the value of that steepest uphill slope.

The directional derivative tells you the slope at point (x,y) along a direction which you specify. If that direction happens to be the direction of the gradient vector, the directional derivative is just the magnitude of the gradient vector, i.e. the steepest slope at that point. If the direction is perpendicular to the gradient vector, the directional derivative should be zero (you're going "sideways" around the hill at constant elevation).
 

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