NASA reports sabotage and drunk astronauts

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around reports of sabotage and incidents involving intoxicated astronauts at NASA, exploring the implications for safety and organizational culture within the agency. Participants discuss the accountability of NASA and its subcontractors, the adequacy of existing policies regarding astronaut conduct, and the broader impact on public perception of the agency.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express skepticism about NASA's oversight and management, citing past incidents such as the Mars orbiter crash and the Challenger disaster as evidence of systemic issues.
  • Others argue that the behavior of a few individuals should not tarnish the reputation of the entire organization, emphasizing the professionalism of many employees at NASA.
  • A participant highlights the need for stricter enforcement of 'fitness for duty' policies, suggesting that the current 12-hour drinking rule is insufficient and should be expanded to prevent any alcohol consumption days before a flight.
  • Concerns are raised about the mental health monitoring of astronauts, particularly in light of recent incidents involving erratic behavior.
  • Some participants question the rationale behind allowing astronauts to fly after consuming alcohol, suggesting that safety should take precedence over lenient policies.
  • There is a discussion about the cultural expectations of astronauts and the pressures they face, with references to personal sacrifices made in their professional lives.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views, with no clear consensus on the effectiveness of NASA's policies or the overall integrity of the organization. Disagreements persist regarding the adequacy of safety measures and the implications of individual actions on the agency's reputation.

Contextual Notes

Limitations in the discussion include varying interpretations of NASA's policies, the impact of individual behavior on organizational reputation, and the complexities surrounding mental health and personal responsibility among astronauts.

Who May Find This Useful

Readers interested in aerospace safety, organizational behavior in high-stakes environments, and the cultural dynamics within NASA may find this discussion relevant.

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The unidentified employee, who works for a NASA subcontractor, cut wires inside the computer that is supposed to be delivered to the international space station by Endeavour[continued]
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19981415/

Aviation Week & Space Technology, a weekly trade journal, reported the finding from the panel on its Web site. The weekly said that the committee found that on at least two occasions, astronauts were allowed to fly after flight surgeons and other astronauts warned they were so intoxicated that they posed a flight-safety risk. [continued]
http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/space/07/26/astronaut.drinking.ap/index.html?eref=rss_topstories

This probably merits two threads but both stories broke about the same time. If this causes confusion, Evo or I can split it up later.
 
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I don't hold NASA in high regards, so this is no surprise to me. Actually, I care very little about NASA.
 
SA reports sabotage and drunk astronauts
That's very unfortunate, but people are people. It happens in aerospace, nuclear and medical industries. Hopefully intervention by others removes such people before they do harm. In the nuclear industry, we have 'fitness for duty' requirements, and that includes random testing for drug and alcohol for those directly involved in the operation nuclear plants.

I don't hold NASA in high regards, so this is no surprise to me. Actually, I care very little about NASA.
I know and work with a number very fine people at NASA. Don't judge the organization because of the actions of a few people. NASA, like many large organization, is bureaucratic and is subject the vagaries of the NASA and federal administrations.
 
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cyrusabdollahi said:
I don't hold NASA in high regards, so this is no surprise to me. Actually, I care very little about NASA.
:confused: That's a bizarre comment :confused:

Have they done something to hurt you?
 
Oh, they let politics get in the way of the first shuttle blowing up, instead of looking at safety and listening to what the engineers had to say about the extreme cold. They converted their units wrong and crashed a $125 million Mars orbiter. They have diaper wearing lunatics/alcoholics for astronauts. They let G. Bush sensor what they say in their reports on the climate. Also, I saw a program on the lives of the families after the second shuttle that crashed on return. There was one woman whose husband is also an Astronaut. They were filiming his life after his wife died, and that guy was a real POS. He didnt know jack about his son, how to do anything around the house. He was like, "Yeah, I put my job before my family...but I am trying to learn about my son now". I was like wow, your son is almost 13 years old, if not older. You're a little late there my friend.


These are not traits I respect in an Organization that supposedly has the 'best and brightest'.

NASA in the 60's, now that's something to respect.
 
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The converted their units wrong and crashed a $125 million Mars orbiter.
I believe that was a subcontractor, not NASA. However, it was NASA's project and there should have been better oversight.

He didnt know jack about his son, . . . .
One will find people like that in every sector of science and technology. I know a guy who realized when his daughter graduated from high school that he really didn't know her. He quit his job, which he had made a priority in his life, in order to spend more time with his family.
 
My jaw hit the floor as I watched that program though. He was talking to his son, how do I cook for you? Hes making the kid crap like hot dogs. And he's talking to his son like he's a stranger. Talk about weird...

He was like, "Yeah, I'd go to work all day and come home late at night and go back to work in the morning. I'd spend almost no time with my family"
 
Astronauts' Behavior Prompts NASA Policy Debate
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=12309233

All Things Considered, July 27, 2007 · After astronaut Lisa Nowak went on a bizarre cross-country trip that ended with an attempted assault on a romantic rival, NASA promised to review its efforts to monitor the mental health of the astronaut corps.

Now, the agency has released two reports on the issue — one of which says the agency allowed two astronauts to fly 12 hours after they had gotten drunk.


A debate!? What's to debate? You get drunk (before a flight) - you're out!

NASA needs to drop the hammer and mandate 'fitness for duty'. If you're drunk before a flight - you're unfit.

I heard someone mention that the NASA policy was no drinking 12 hrs before a flight. I am somewhat bewildered by that statement. One shouldn't be drinking days or a week or more before a flight, especially with all the prep. I am not referring to one or two drinks (e.g. beer or wine) with a meal, but rather thinking of the situation where one is drinking many drinks.

Safety is paramount and if there is suspicion of someone being drunk or under the influence while on duty, the testing should be mandatory, and anyone failing a test goes on immediate suspension. Reckless endangerment is unacceptable.
 
"That's not the 'right stuff' as far as I'm concerned," said Bart Gordon, D-Tennessee.

Well said, Mr.Gordon!

I guess this story shocks me more than anything. You would think that 2 incredibly incredibly people, (the astronauts), would be sensible enough to refrain from drinking alcohol a few days before a Space Flight. They have a responsibility to the Nation be fully aware of what they are doing!
 
  • #10
Astronuc said:
NASA needs to drop the hammer and mandate 'fitness for duty'. If you're drunk before a flight - you're unfit.

I heard someone mention that the NASA policy was no drinking 12 hrs before a flight. I am somewhat bewildered by that statement. One shouldn't be drinking days or a week or more before a flight, especially with all the prep. I am not referring to one or two drinks (e.g. beer or wine) with a meal, but rather thinking of the situation where one is drinking many drinks.

Get this. It was reported that the 12 hour bottle to throttle rule was only applied to training missions!

NASA has a policy that prohibits any drinking in the 12 hours before an astronaut flies in a training jet - the bottle-to-throttle time - and this policy has applied to spaceflights as well. But it wasn't enforced. As a result of this new panel, the rule will be official - no drunk astronauts allowed.
http://blog.wired.com/wiredscience/2007/07/bottle-to-throt.html

This must all trace back to the original test pilots - The Right Stuff and all. Hard drinkin, hard playin thrill seekers.
 
  • #11
I don't understand how it was only enforced during training. That's a bit ridiculous for an organization like NASA. One would think that they wouldn't gamble with lives like that... oh and their own expensive hardware. Needless to say, they don't need any more negative attention these days. At least there were no hostages involved this time.
 
  • #12
z-component said:
At least there were no hostages involved this time.

...or diapers!
 

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