Need help MTW's Gravitation exercise 16.1

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    Exercise Gravitation
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a specific problem from MTW's Gravitation, exercise 16.1, where participants explore issues related to the calculation of connection coefficients and the implications of changing bases in the context of differential geometry. The scope includes technical reasoning and clarification of mathematical concepts related to connections and Christoffel symbols.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion over obtaining both a vanishing and a non-vanishing connection coefficient, seeking clarification on their calculations.
  • Another participant suggests numbering equations for clarity and questions the correctness of the change of basis used in the calculations, noting that a connection is not a tensor and involves an extra derivative term during basis changes.
  • A participant acknowledges the suggestion and asks for guidance on how to incorporate the extra derivative term when transitioning from a non-coordinate basis to a coordinate basis.
  • Another participant proposes using a more general change-of-basis matrix in the calculations.
  • One participant challenges the validity of a specific equation referenced in the discussion, claiming it is incorrect and only works by coincidence for some Christoffel symbols, providing a link for further context.
  • A later reply indicates that the previous participant's clarification resolved their confusion regarding the problem.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants exhibit a mix of agreement and disagreement, particularly regarding the correctness of certain equations and the methods for changing bases. Some participants provide suggestions and corrections, while others maintain their original approaches, leading to an unresolved discussion on the best method to proceed.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference specific equations and external documents, indicating potential limitations in the assumptions made or the definitions used in their calculations. There is an acknowledgment of the complexity involved in changing bases and the implications for connection coefficients.

qinglong.1397
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Need help! MTW's Gravitation exercise 16.1!

I am working on MTW's Gravitation and I came across a problem. In the attachment https://www.physicsforums.com/attachments/50292, I show my calculation and, finally, I show the contradiction that is,

you can get a vanishing [itex]\Gamma^k_{\phantom{k}kk}[/itex] with Cartan's equation

but, at the same time,

you can also get a non-vanishing [itex]\Gamma^k_{\phantom{k}kk}[/itex] by simply inserting metric into the definition of connection coefficients.

What's wrong with my calculation? I need your help. Thank you!
 

Attachments

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You should number all your equations, because the ones I need to refer to are not.

I have not checked your calculation of [itex]\omega[/itex]. However, when you change from the orthonormal basis to the coordinate basis, are you sure you used the correct change of basis? A connection is not a tensor; a change of basis includes an extra derivative term.
 


Ben Niehoff said:
You should number all your equations, because the ones I need to refer to are not.

I have not checked your calculation of [itex]\omega[/itex]. However, when you change from the orthonormal basis to the coordinate basis, are you sure you used the correct change of basis? A connection is not a tensor; a change of basis includes an extra derivative term.

Thanks for your reply, and I've already uploaded a new document where I numbered all the equations. Sorry for this inconvenience.

You have a good point. A connection isn't a tensor. However, I'm concerning how to add that extra derivative term. You know, you get that extra derivative term when you transfer from one coordinate basis to another coordinate basis, but here, you go from one non-coordinate basis to a coordinate one. Would you please give a hint? Thank you!
 


In all the places you see something like

[tex]\frac{\partial x^\mu}{\partial y^\nu}[/tex]
you can put a more general change-of-basis matrix.
 


Ben Niehoff said:
In all the places you see something like

[tex]\frac{\partial x^\mu}{\partial y^\nu}[/tex]
you can put a more general change-of-basis matrix.

Thanks for your reply! But I think my way of changing basis is correct. You can see this example on Page 19 :http://physicssusan.mono.net/upl/9111/Lotsofcalculationsp.1326.pdf
 
Last edited by a moderator:


Ben Niehoff said:
Equation 5.14 in your reference is wrong, and could only have worked for most of the Christoffel symbols by coincidence. See "Change of frame" here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Connection_form

Thank you very much! This exactly solves my puzzle. :approve:
 
Asking for help with MTW's problem 16.1

I am working on MTW's Gravitation and I came across an annoying problem. I describe the problem and show my calculation in the attachment. Please download it and help me out.

Thank you very much! :biggrin:
 

Attachments



qinglong.1397 said:
I am working on MTW's Gravitation and I came across an annoying problem. I describe the problem and show my calculation in the attachment. Please download it and help me out.

Thank you very much! :biggrin:

This is a new post. I need your help! Thank you!
 

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