Need help with derivative notation

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the notation for derivatives of scalar functions when the variable is extended from a single variable to a vector of multiple variables. Participants explore the need for a compact notation similar to ##\frac{df}{dx}## for multivariable cases, while also addressing potential notational conventions and their implications.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that for a scalar function of a variable ##x##, the derivative can be expressed as ##f'(x)=\frac{df}{dx}##, and questions if a similar compact notation exists for a vector ##x=(x^1, x^2, ..., x^n)##.
  • Another participant suggests using the ##∇f## operator as a potential compact notation for the gradient of the function.
  • A later reply acknowledges the suggestion and indicates that the gradient notation works, but does not elaborate further.
  • One participant raises a concern about the notation of the vector components, suggesting that they should be written with subscripts (##x=(x_1, x_2, ..., x_n)##) to avoid confusion, citing common practices in textbooks.
  • Another participant counters that the original notation with superscripts is necessary for the Einstein summation convention and to differentiate between contravariant and covariant components.
  • One participant reflects that their notational issue led to the discovery of an error in their proof, indicating a connection between notation and conceptual understanding.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the appropriate notation for vector components, with some advocating for subscripts and others defending the use of superscripts. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the best notation to use in this context.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved assumptions regarding the conventions of notation in different fields, such as vector calculus versus differential geometry, and how these conventions impact the clarity and correctness of mathematical expressions.

orion
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If I have a scalar function of a variable ##x## I can write the derivative as: ##f'(x)=\frac{df}{dx}##.

Now suppose ##x## is no longer a single variable but a vector: ## x=(x^1, x^2, ..., x^n)##. Then of course we have for the derivative ##(\frac{\partial f}{\partial x^1}, ..., \frac{\partial f}{\partial x^n})##.

But for a proof I need a compact notation like ##\frac{df}{dx}## for this multivariable case. Does such a compact notation exist? I mean, a notation without making explicit reference to components.

Thanks in advance.
 
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orion said:
If I have a scalar function of a variable ##x## I can write the derivative as: ##f'(x)=\frac{df}{dx}##.

Now suppose ##x## is no longer a single variable but a vector: ## x=(x^1, x^2, ..., x^n)##. Then of course we have for the derivative ##(\frac{\partial f}{\partial x^1}, ..., \frac{\partial f}{\partial x^n})##.

But for a proof I need a compact notation like ##\frac{df}{dx}## for this multivariable case. Does such a compact notation exist? I mean, a notation without making explicit reference to components.

Thanks in advance.
How about the ##∇f## operator?
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gradient)
 
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Thanks, fresh 42. I'm sorry I'm late in responding, but I forgot I wrote this question. It turns out that after I wrote this, I realized a mistake I was making in the proof and you are right, the gradient works. Thanks again.
 
orion said:
If I have a scalar function of a variable ##x## I can write the derivative as: ##f'(x)=\frac{df}{dx}##.

Now suppose ##x## is no longer a single variable but a vector: ## x=(x^1, x^2, ..., x^n)##. Then of course we have for the derivative ##(\frac{\partial f}{\partial x^1}, ..., \frac{\partial f}{\partial x^n})##.
This -- ## x=(x^1, x^2, ..., x^n)## -- should probably be written as ## x=(x_1, x_2, ..., x_n)## to avoid confusion. Although I have seen a few textbooks that use superscripts as indexes, most use superscripts to denote exponents rather than indexes.

Also, this -- ##(\frac{\partial f}{\partial x^1}, ..., \frac{\partial f}{\partial x^n})## -- should be written as ##(\frac{\partial f}{\partial x_1}, ..., \frac{\partial f}{\partial x_n})## for the same reason.
orion said:
But for a proof I need a compact notation like ##\frac{df}{dx}## for this multivariable case. Does such a compact notation exist? I mean, a notation without making explicit reference to components.

Thanks in advance.
 
Mark44 said:
This -- ## x=(x^1, x^2, ..., x^n)## -- should probably be written as ## x=(x_1, x_2, ..., x_n)## to avoid confusion. Although I have seen a few textbooks that use superscripts as indexes, most use superscripts to denote exponents rather than indexes.

Also, this -- ##(\frac{\partial f}{\partial x^1}, ..., \frac{\partial f}{\partial x^n})## -- should be written as ##(\frac{\partial f}{\partial x_1}, ..., \frac{\partial f}{\partial x_n})## for the same reason.

No, it has to be written the way I wrote it. Otherwise, the Einstein summation convention does not work and also there is a need to distinguish contravariant components from covariant components.

I realize that I posted in a calculus forum but that was because I wanted input on a derivative notation from vector calculus. It's actually a proof in differential geometry. But in the end I found out that my notational problem was pointing a way to an error in my proof.
 

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