Negative energy in the Schrödinger equation

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of negative energy in the context of the Schrödinger equation, particularly focusing on bound states and scattering states. Participants explore the implications of choosing different reference points for potential energy and the effects on wave functions and solutions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that bound states correspond to negative energy (E<0) and scattering states to positive energy (E>0), questioning the reference potential used.
  • Another participant suggests that the potential energy at infinity is the reference point for these definitions.
  • A concern is raised about the validity of manipulating the sign of energy, with the assertion that solutions are typically obtained only if E>Vmin.
  • It is pointed out that Vmin can also be negative in the context of scattering and bound-state problems.
  • A participant expresses confusion about the implications of changing the reference potential, suggesting that it could lead to a sinusoidal wave function instead of an exponential one.
  • Another participant questions how negative energy can exist with a potential that approaches zero at infinity, referencing a delta function potential.
  • A suggestion is made to experiment with a known potential by adding a constant to see how it affects eigenvalues.
  • One participant mentions that delta-like potentials can be analyzed using Fourier transforms, providing a mathematical framework for the discussion.
  • The mathematical formulation of the Schrödinger equation in momentum space is presented, along with a self-consistency condition involving energy parameters.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of changing reference potentials and the nature of negative energy states. There is no consensus on how these factors interact or their effects on wave functions.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the dependence on definitions of potential energy and the unresolved nature of the mathematical implications of negative energy in specific scenarios.

aaaa202
Messages
1,144
Reaction score
2
When my book deals with bound states and scattering states it puts:

E<0 bound state, E>0 scattering state. What reference for the potential have been used for these?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Potential energy at infinity.
 
but can you just play around with sign in front of the energy just like that? I thought you only obtained solutions if E>Vmin?
 
Your Vmin is also negative for scattering/bound-state problems.
 
I see. Makes sense. But sinse you can pick any reference for your potential what if you then picked one such that the energy switches sign. That seems to alter everything since you would then get a sinusoidal wave function instead of an exponential. What am I missing out on?
 
And also. It seems my book treats the problem where you have a delta function potential at the origin both with negative and positive energy. But how would it be possible to have negative energy with a potential that goes to zero at infinity?
 
Why don't you try it? Take a potential that you know how to solve. Replace V -> V + constant. Solve again, and see what happens to the eigen values.

Delta function potentials always bothered me too, so I'm afraid I can't help you visualize it. Just trust the math.
 
Problems with a delta-like potential may be solved by applying a Fourier transform.

A delta-like potential V(x) = \alpha \, \delta(x - x_0) has a Fourier transform:
<br /> \tilde{V}(k) = \alpha \, e^{-i k \, x_0}<br />

The Schroedinger equation in momentum space is:
<br /> \frac{\hbar^2 \, k^2}{2 \, m} a(k) + \int_{-\infty}^{\infty} \frac{dk&#039;}{2 \pi} \, \tilde{V}(k - k&#039;) a(k&#039;) = E \, a(k)<br />
where a(k) = \int_{-\infty}^{\infty} \psi(x) e^{-i k x} \, dx is the wave function Fourier transform. The inverse Fourier transform is:
<br /> \psi(x) = \int_{-\infty}^{\infty} \frac{dk}{2 \pi} a(k) e^{i k \, x}<br />

Substituting the Fourier transform of the potential in our Schrödinger equation, and using the definition of an inverse Fourier transform of the wave function, we get:
<br /> \left(E - \frac{\hbar^2 \, k^2}{2 \, m} \right) \, a(k) = \alpha \, \psi(x_0) \, e^{-i k \, x_0}<br />
Substituting this into the definition for \psi(x_0), we get the self-consistency condition:
<br /> \psi(x_0) = \alpha \, \psi(x_0) \, \int_{-\infty}^{\infty} \frac{dk}{2\pi} \frac{1}{E - \frac{\hbar^2 k^2}{2 \, m}}<br />
If we assume that \psi(x_0) \neq 0 (otherwise a(k) \equiv 0, \forall k, which is a trivial solution), and we introduces the energy parameter \epsilon (with a dimension [k]2):
<br /> \epsilon \equiv \frac{2 m \, E}{\hbar^2}<br />
<br /> 1 = -\frac{2 m \, \alpha}{\hbar^2} \, \int_{-\infty}^{\infty} \frac{dk}{2\pi} \frac{1}{k^2 - \epsilon}<br />
This is an implicit equation for \epsilon. Can you find its solutions?
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
Replies
3
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
4K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
3K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
4K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
1K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
2K
  • · Replies 143 ·
5
Replies
143
Views
12K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K