# New tesla sedan from 49k, thoughts?

## Main Question or Discussion Point

Tesla motors said:
When Tesla formally announced the Model S Sedan last June, the MSRP bandied was about $60,000 for the all-electric sedan. In its newsletter today, Tesla has confirmed that the "anticipated base price" for the Model S will be$57,400. With a federal tax credit of $7,500 available, however, the Model S should cost just$49,900. Details on what's included in the base version of the Model S should be available at the vehicle's official unveiling next week. Tesla says that even with a sub-$50,000 price tag (just barely), the Model S is really competing with cars that cost much less: Because of tax incentives and relatively inexpensive maintenance and refueling, the lifetime ownership cost will be closer to cars with far lower sticker prices. [...] The Model S will become the car of choice for environmentally conscious and discriminating drivers throughout North America and Europe. For comparison's sake, the Fisker Karma, a luxury plug-in hybrid sedan, will start at$87,900. The Chevy Volt will probably be somewhere around $40,000, though GM has not made any official announcement about its price. # - 300 mile range # - 45 minute QuickCharge # - 0-60 mph in 5.6 seconds # - Seats 7 people # - More Cargo space than sedans # - 2X as efficient as hybrids # - 17 inch infotainment touchscreen Frankly this looks amazing, sounds less damaging then combustion engines. However if electric cars become mainstream- we'd have an increased demand on electricty, which is still widely coal powered. Also with fuel cells technology improving, would there still be a market for electric cars? I'm biased a tad, I'm an electrical engineering student and a sucker for head turning car bodies. thoughts? http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/228/logo8167553.png [Broken] http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/5597/overview8167686.jpg [Broken] http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/7213/range8167692.jpg [Broken] http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/6899/utility8167697.jpg [Broken] http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/7166/performance8167702.jpg [Broken] http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/5994/technology8167715.jpg [Broken] Last edited by a moderator: ## Answers and Replies Related General Discussion News on Phys.org Let the big three FAIL so these companies can take the market up. so far at another forum we found that despite having full torque at 0 rpm (the acceleration is insane), the top speed might not be there with internal combustion engines, . so far at another forum we found that despite having full torque at 0 rpm (the acceleration is insane), the top speed might not be there with internal combustion engines, . Yeah, because we all go 160+ MPH. Frankly this looks amazing, sounds less damaging then combustion engines. However if electric cars become mainstream- we'd have an increased demand on electricty, which is still widely coal powered. I think it would be interesting to calculate how much pollution you eliminate by going from a combustion engine to an electric car powered by coal power plants (or maybe there is something to this effect floating around now?). I think it would be interesting to calculate how much pollution you eliminate by going from a combustion engine to an electric car powered by coal power plants (or maybe there is something to this effect floating around now?). Hopefully the world will wise up and switch entirely to nuclear power soon. This car looks awesome. Tesla can't even keep their promises with their roadster. I don't see how this car is going to be any different. russ_watters Mentor Yeah, we'll see what it actually costs and how it actually performs when it is released (it is still more than two years away!), but it certainly is pretty. Wow that car looks amazing. As other said though, lets wait until it actually hits the market. drankin I'm curious of how much electrical power this thing can store for use and then what the current draw is to charge in 45min. Everyone on one neighborhood block plugging in their car at the same time could be interesting. mgb_phys Science Advisor Homework Helper Not as daft as this They are planning a sports version, 60mph top speed, 60mile range for a mere 9000GBP =$13500!

Thats about 3 times the price of a CBR125 or a bit more than a CBR900!
Oh and the power/weight means you can't ride it as a learner, you need to be over 25 and have a licence for 3years.

Not as daft as this

They are planning a sports version, 60mph top speed, 60mile range for a mere 9000GBP = $13500! Thats about 3 times the price of a CBR125 or a bit more than a CBR900! Oh and the power/weight means you can't ride it as a learner, you need to be over 25 and have a licence for 3years. If it looked like this, it would sell: http://www.evolvingtype.com/teddy/archives/images/suzuki_gstrider.jpg [Broken] (this is a concept bike, unfortunately...because if they mass produced it, I would buy it. Or steal it. Basically I'd sleep with your mom to get my hands on it, if that's what it took..) Last edited by a moderator: apparently the 50k price tag is due to the expensive Li-Ion batteries is uses. They're trying to have this compete with the BMW5 series. Fingers crossed that the interior is as mouthwatering. berkeman Mentor Hopefully the world will wise up and switch entirely to nuclear power soon. This car looks awesome. A guy I swim workouts with has a Tesla, and the cost numbers for commuting in it were pretty impressive (not the purchase price, though). A non-fossile-fuel source of energy makes it moderately attractive. He pays a premium for wind electrical recharge power sources, and still is ahead versus Arab gas. Probably some US subsidies are involved in his price structure, though. Interesting alternative going forward, though. It doesn't matter if its still powered by coal generated electricity, one large powerplant is more efficient than several combustion engines so all in all there will be an improvement (not to mention the reduction of smog in cities) russ_watters Mentor It doesn't matter if its still powered by coal generated electricity, one large powerplant is more efficient than several combustion engines so all in all there will be an improvement (not to mention the reduction of smog in cities) That isn't necessarily true due to efficiency losses in the conversions and transport. It also likely depends on the kind of driving and kind of car. Electric is much more efficient than conventional gas powered for city driving - but then a regular hybrid can realize most of that efficiency gain while still being fully gas powered. mgb_phys Science Advisor Homework Helper apparently the 50k price tag is due to the expensive Li-Ion batteries is uses. They're trying to have this compete with the BMW5 series. The 50k price is because that's what BMW/Mercedes/Porsche charge. Although I don't know how they are hoping to achieve it when the roadster, built on a$30K Lotus costs $120K I think they stand a good chance with this. You buy cars in this price range because of image and performance. Acceleration (which this is great at) matters more day-day than top speed (which it isn't) in the USA (perhaps not in Germany) Image this wins hands down, it's rare enough to turn heads and has the extra electric car interest factor. So that puts it up in Lamborghini/Masserati territory rather than BMW. Last edited: Alfi I like it. What it looks like is secondary to me. The battery reliability tech is what's important. I really don't want to spend big bucks to turn peoples heads. Tuning peoples heads doesn't save me a dime. LowlyPion Homework Helper Not as daft as this They are planning a sports version, 60mph top speed, 60mile range for a mere 9000GBP =$13500!

Thats about 3 times the price of a CBR125 or a bit more than a CBR900!
Oh and the power/weight means you can't ride it as a learner, you need to be over 25 and have a licence for 3years.
I'm having a little difficulty visualizing Peter Fonda or Dennis Hopper looking all that cool on one of these.

Tesla is definitely making impressive progress. I can imagine these actually getting bought at this price. If the economy were doing better and the price of gas were doing worse, it seems like Tesla would be in pretty good shape right now.

How do these compare to the Volt featurewise?

When do these hit market?

The Chevy Volt is $40k, but that's supposed to be with Chevy losing a bunch of money on each one. Toyota has reportedly sold the Prius at even bigger losses at various points. Is Tesla selling these at a loss? Is Tesla still manufacturing these in England? I expect that the price of fully electric cars will continue to drop as the factories start to recover from their initial investment costs and the market takes hold. Electric cars are incredibly simpler to build than gasoline cars.. forget about all those millions of moving parts and tangles of tubing under the hood. Basically all you need is a battery, a motor, a drive train and a place to sit. mgb_phys Science Advisor Homework Helper Tesla is definitely making impressive progress. I can imagine these actually getting bought at this price. If the economy were doing better and the price of gas were doing worse, it seems like Tesla would be in pretty good shape right now. Economy maybe but nobody is buying tesla roadsters rather than Posche/Audi to save money on gas! When do these hit market? My guess is never, at least not at this price and not looking like that. The Roadster is an easy build, it's just a Lotus Elise + electric motor. The Lotus is very light with a fantastic chassis and is used as the basis of a lot of specials, this is supposedly a built from scratch platform. If thats true then it's an amazing time/cost project for a new company. The publicity shots also show fancy accessories (racing front brakes) which suggest that this is a concept car and the final model will look a lot more normal at a much higher price. The Chevy Volt is$40k, but that's supposed to be with Chevy losing a bunch of money on each one. Toyota has reportedly sold the Prius at even bigger losses at various points. Is Tesla selling these at a loss?
I don't think chevy have any real intention of selling the volt, it's to keep government regulators of their backs while they wait for the economy to pick up so they can sell pickups/SUVs again.
I would look at Japanese comapnies (like Mistsubishi's electric Smart), VW are sticking with ultra-efficent small diesels and nobody else in the small car market has the R+D effort or money to spare.

Is Tesla still manufacturing these in England?
It's supposed to be built at a brand new plant in California, presumably to take advatange of the cheap labor market? Or they are hoping for a big state hand-out.
The roadster is a Lotus Elise so was built at Lotus's factory.

Argentum Vulpes
Tesla can't even keep their promises with their roadster. I don't see how this car is going to be any different.
I have been following the Tesla roadster since it was announced two years ago. I would of bought one, but you can't live comfortably in a car.

From the initial specs to the current release model, the price has go up 1,500 dollars the range per charge has dropped 30 miles, the tranny has lost a gear, and the 0-60 acceleration has improved by about a second. So I'd say yes they have broken some of their promises but really it is not that big of a deal.

mgb_phys thanks for the insights.

It's supposed to be built at a brand new plant in California, presumably to take advatange of the cheap labor market? Or they are hoping for a big state hand-out.
The roadster is a Lotus Elise so was built at Lotus's factory.
Well I mainly asked because I live in the general area where the factory is to be built, but last I heard ground-breaking had stalled out. I was thus surprised to see them announcing a car at a price point that would seem to require owning their own factories, before work on the factories have even begun. That was before I saw this on the Tesla page:

Availability:
Deliveries to begin in 2012
Refundable Reservation: \$5000
Oh... right.

The Tesla plant will be and was always intended to be built with rather large hand-outs from the state and federal governments, in fact last I heard the main reason the factory building was being delayed was that the hand-outs the federal government has been giving to the big three automakers have been threatening to eat into the fund that was supposed to be giving hand-outs to Tesla to build their plant!

As far as why they're building the plant here, I don't think the bay area is really characterized by cheap labor, I always assumed they wanted the plant here so that it could be close to their engineering/design facilities. And of course then there are the California government hand-outs...

mheslep
Gold Member
Tesla can't even keep their promises with their roadster. I don't see how this car is going to be any different.
How so?