Newton's Law of Gravitation: Balancing Centrifugal Force & Internal Pressure

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between centrifugal force, gravity, and spacetime curvature as described by Newtonian physics and General Relativity. Participants explore how these concepts interact in the context of orbiting bodies, such as planets and stars, and question the applicability of Newton's law of gravitation in light of Einstein's theories.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question how centrifugal force is balanced in orbiting bodies if gravity is redefined as spacetime curvature in General Relativity.
  • Others argue that in Newton's framework, gravity acts as a centripetal force, and there is no centrifugal force involved in maintaining orbits.
  • A participant notes that General Relativity describes the motion of orbiting bodies as following geodesics, implying no forces act on them in the traditional sense.
  • It is suggested that the Lagrangian principle can be used to approximate Newton's law of gravity in curved spacetime around massive objects.
  • Some participants emphasize that in inertial frames, objects move in straight lines unless acted upon by an unbalanced force, which they identify as gravity.
  • Another point raised is that in General Relativity, the concept of centrifugal force is not applicable, as the framework relies on a different metric for rotating frames.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the existence and role of centrifugal force in the context of gravity and spacetime curvature. There is no consensus on whether Newton's law remains valid or how it relates to General Relativity.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the complexities of reconciling Newtonian mechanics with General Relativity, particularly regarding definitions of forces and motion in different frames of reference. Assumptions about the nature of forces and the applicability of formulas are not fully resolved.

Osvaldo
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How is the centrifugal force in an orbiting planet or star, balanced if according to Einstein there is not such gravity force and is only space time curvature. Also, how come in order to determine internal pressure of a planet or star, the force acting near the center is calculated using the Newton formula F = G mM/Rsquared.
Then was Newton wrong? If so why this formula still aplly?
 
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Both questions are doubts about the amount of curvature giving the same effect as gravity -- not about whether there can be curvature that changes the definition of a "straight path". The fact is that the amount of curvature, both near and at a distance of R, and the resulting effect do match the effect of gravity. If they did not match, then there really would be a problem.

PS. Probably a better term than "straight path" would have been "unaccelerated path in space-time". The completely correct term is "geodesic path".
 
Last edited:
Osvaldo said:
How is the centrifugal force in an orbiting planet or star, balanced if according to Einstein there is not such gravity force and is only space time curvature?

In Newton's gravity, there is no centrifugal force. Instead, gravity provides a centripetal force that keeps an object in orbit. There is only one (inertial) force in this case.

In General Relativity, there are no forces on an orbiting body. Instead, its path through spacetime is a natural one (technically called a geodesic).

To calculate the path of an object in curved spacetime, you can use the Lagrangian principle. For the spacetime round a spherically symmetric star like the Sun, this gives a very close approximation to Newton's law of gravity.
 
Osvaldo said:
How is the centrifugal force in an orbiting planet or star, balanced if according to Einstein there is not such gravity force and is only space time curvature.
There is no such thing as the centrifugal force either. (In exactly the same sense)
 
In inertial frames in Newtonian physics, things move on straight lines if no unbalanced forces act on them. So there must be an unbalanced force if an object is not moving in a straight line - and that force is gravity.

General relativity basically modifies Newton's first law. Things experiencing no force don't move in straight lines. They follow paths called "geodesics". Far from any source of gravity, these are (arbitrarily close to) straight lines. Close to sources of gravity they (or their spatial projections) are curves. So no centripetal force is necessary because the orbital path is inertial.
 
Osvaldo said:
How is the centrifugal force in an orbiting planet or star, balanced if according to Einstein there is not such gravity force and is only space time curvature.
In Newtonian mechanics the inertial centrifugal force is used in rotating frames of reference. In General Relativity you instead use a different space-time metric for the rotating frame, and there is neither a force of gravity, nor a centrifugal force.
 

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