Next number in the sequence 2 3 5 7 11 13 17 20 23 29 33

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a sequence referred to as "frog numbers," which are generated from the first n odd primes. Participants explore the properties of this sequence, particularly focusing on the distances between prime numbers and the conditions under which consecutive integers are divisible by these primes. The conversation includes attempts to analyze the sequence mathematically and to understand the underlying patterns.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Debate/contested, Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes the frog numbers as generated from the first n odd primes and expresses curiosity about their properties and potential algorithms for generating them.
  • Another participant presents equations related to the sequence, suggesting that they represent Diophantine equations and provides general solutions for numbers divisible by 3 or 5.
  • Some participants question the derivation of specific terms in the sequence, particularly the second term, and discuss the maximum length of consecutive integers divisible by the primes.
  • There is a discussion about the subtleties of achieving certain lengths of consecutive integers divisible by the primes, with examples illustrating the challenges of separating contributions from different primes.
  • Several participants share sequences they have generated, expressing uncertainty about how to derive additional terms or longer sequences.
  • One participant speculates that as larger primes are considered, the sequences may exhibit recurring patterns but also deviate, noting the computational intensity of verifying these observations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying interpretations of the sequence and its properties, leading to multiple competing views. There is no consensus on the correct approach to analyze or extend the sequence, and several questions remain unresolved.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes limitations related to the assumptions made about the sequence and the mathematical steps involved in deriving terms. The complexity of the analysis and the computational challenges are acknowledged but not resolved.

axelmorack
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I have always been curious about the distance between prime numbers. I call the sequence above the frog numbers because I don't know what else to call them. They are generated from the first n odd primes. How many consecutive integers are divisible by at least one of the set. Then add 1. For example, only one consecutive number is divisible by 3. Add 1 and you get 2. Only 2 consecutive numbers can be divisible by 3 or 5. Add 1 and you get 3. Etc. I don't have the mathematical horsepower to analyze the sequence and I am wondering if someone can give me more information on it? Is there efficient algorithm for generating lots of these numbers? I did write a program to generate the frog numbers in the title above. It is interesting how closely they track the primes.
 
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So, regarding the second element of the sequence:
[tex] x = 3 k, x + 1 = 5 l, \ x = 5 m, x + 1 = 3 n[/tex]
These equations are equivalent to the Diophantine equations:
[tex] 5 l - 3 k = 1, \ 3 n - 5 m = 1[/tex]
which have the following general solutions:
[tex] k = 5 r - 2, l = 3 r - 1 \Rightarrow x = 3 k = 15 k - 6[/tex]
or
[tex] m = 3 r + 1, n = 5 r + 3 \Rightarrow x = 5 m = 15 m + 5[/tex]
So, we have an infinite family of numbers:
[tex] x = 15 r + 5, \ x = 15 r + 9, \ r \ge 0[/tex]
that are either divisible by 3 or 5 and their successor is divisible by the other one:

(5, 6), (9, 10), (20, 21), (24, 25), (35, 36), (39, 40), ...

So, I don't understand how you got the second term in your sequence.
 
Dickfore said:
that are either divisible by 3 or 5 and their successor is divisible by the other one:

(5, 6), (9, 10), (20, 21), (24, 25), (35, 36), (39, 40), ...

So, I don't understand how you got the second term in your sequence.
The OP is looking at the max length of a consecutive sequence, 2 in your example.
 
haruspex said:
The OP is looking at the max length of a consecutive sequence, 2 in your example.

Oh, so there are no 3 consecutive numbers divisible by 3 or 5.
 
Dickfore said:
Oh, so there are no 3 consecutive numbers divisible by 3 or 5.
You are correct.
 
It's quite subtle. In 8 consecutive integers, 3 could be divisible by 3, 2 by 5, 2 by 7, 1 by 11; 3+2+2+1=8. Yet you can't achieve a string of 8 using 3 to 11 because the end two would have to be each divisible by 7, and to fit 3 multiples of 3 in, one of them is going to land on one of the 7s. So you can't separate all 8 contributions.
 
haruspex said:
It's quite subtle. In 8 consecutive integers, 3 could be divisible by 3, 2 by 5, 2 by 7, 1 by 11; 3+2+2+1=8. Yet you can't achieve a string of 8 using 3 to 11 because the end two would have to be each divisible by 7, and to fit 3 multiples of 3 in, one of them is going to land on one of the 7s. So you can't separate all 8 contributions.

If you go out on the number line to find the best starting spot for 3,5,7 and 11, that number will be relatively prime to 3,5,7 and 11. It will be of the form (3K+r1), (5K+r2), (7K+r3), and (11K+r4). It is relatively easy to think of starting from 0 and crossing out numbers of the form (3K+s1), (5K+s2), (7k+s3) and (11k+s4) . Then look at the distance from 0 to the first number not of any of these forms. Pick the biggest distance found.
 
len+1 | sequence
2 | 3
3 | 3 5
5 | 3 7 5 3
7 | 5 3 7 11 3 5
11 | 3 7 5 3 13 11 3 5 7 3
13 | 11 3 7 5 3 13 17 3 5 7 3 11
17 | 3 13 11 3 7 5 3 19 17 3 5 7 3 11 13 3
19? | 17 3 13 11 3 7 5 3 19 23 3 5 7 3 11 13 3 17
23 | 3 19 17 3 13 11 3 7 5 3 29 23 3 5 7 3 11 13 3 17 19 3
29 | 3 5 23 3 19 17 3 13 11 3 7 5 3 29 31 3 5 7 3 11 13 3 17 19 3 23 5 3
31? | 29 3 5 23 3 19 17 3 13 11 3 7 5 3 37 31 3 5 7 3 11 13 3 17 19 3 23 5 3 29
37?? | 5 3 31 29 3 5 23 3 19 17 3 13 11 3 7 5 3 37 41 3 5 7 3 11 13 3 17 19 3 23 5 3 29 31 3 5

this would be my sequences, not sure how your getting more.
 
  • #10
phillip1882 said:
len+1 | sequence
2 | 3
3 | 3 5
5 | 3 7 5 3
7 | 5 3 7 11 3 5
11 | 3 7 5 3 13 11 3 5 7 3
13 | 11 3 7 5 3 13 17 3 5 7 3 11
17 | 3 13 11 3 7 5 3 19 17 3 5 7 3 11 13 3
19? | 17 3 13 11 3 7 5 3 19 23 3 5 7 3 11 13 3 17
23 | 3 19 17 3 13 11 3 7 5 3 29 23 3 5 7 3 11 13 3 17 19 3
29 | 3 5 23 3 19 17 3 13 11 3 7 5 3 29 31 3 5 7 3 11 13 3 17 19 3 23 5 3
31? | 29 3 5 23 3 19 17 3 13 11 3 7 5 3 37 31 3 5 7 3 11 13 3 17 19 3 23 5 3 29
37?? | 5 3 31 29 3 5 23 3 19 17 3 13 11 3 7 5 3 37 41 3 5 7 3 11 13 3 17 19 3 23 5 3 29 31 3 5

this would be my sequences, not sure how your getting more.

19 | 3 5 11 3 13 23 3 7 19 3 17 5 3 11 7 3 5 13 3 yields 20
 
  • #11
phillip1882 said:
len+1 | sequence
2 | 3
3 | 3 5
5 | 3 7 5 3
7 | 5 3 7 11 3 5
11 | 3 7 5 3 13 11 3 5 7 3
13 | 11 3 7 5 3 13 17 3 5 7 3 11
17 | 3 13 11 3 7 5 3 19 17 3 5 7 3 11 13 3
19? | 17 3 13 11 3 7 5 3 19 23 3 5 7 3 11 13 3 17
23 | 3 19 17 3 13 11 3 7 5 3 29 23 3 5 7 3 11 13 3 17 19 3
29 | 3 5 23 3 19 17 3 13 11 3 7 5 3 29 31 3 5 7 3 11 13 3 17 19 3 23 5 3
31? | 29 3 5 23 3 19 17 3 13 11 3 7 5 3 37 31 3 5 7 3 11 13 3 17 19 3 23 5 3 29
37?? | 5 3 31 29 3 5 23 3 19 17 3 13 11 3 7 5 3 37 41 3 5 7 3 11 13 3 17 19 3 23 5 3 29 31 3 5

this would be my sequences, not sure how your getting more.
I'm thinking that as you go to larger primes that the sequences keep coming back to the pattern you describe above but keep veering off from time to time. It is so computationally intense it will be hard to check.
 

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