Night sky cooling, cooling by transmission or as 'heat sink'

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the phenomenon of radiative night sky cooling, specifically exploring whether the cooling effect is primarily due to the transmittance of radiation through the atmosphere or if the atmosphere acts as an absorption heat sink. Participants examine the implications of atmospheric conditions, such as water vapor content, on cooling rates and the dynamics of radiative exchange between objects and the night sky.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that the cooling effect is mainly due to the transmittance of body radiation through the atmosphere, with clearer nights leading to greater cooling effects.
  • Others argue that any absorption and re-emission by the atmosphere reduces the radiative cooling effect since the atmosphere is warmer than space.
  • A participant reflects on the net exchange of radiation, considering how the dynamics differ between transmittance and absorption, using the analogy of a cold charcoal block.
  • Another participant suggests modeling the atmosphere as a hemispherical shell with holes, where some radiation passes directly into space while the rest warms the shell, affecting the cooling dynamics.
  • One participant mentions the influence of thermal energy supply from within an object and the role of insulation on cooling rates.
  • A recommendation for further reading on atmospheric absorption and emission phenomena is provided, indicating the complexity of the topic.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the primary mechanism behind radiative night sky cooling, with no consensus reached on whether transmittance or absorption is the dominant factor.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the complexity of radiative cooling, including factors such as atmospheric composition, wavelength selectivity, and the interplay between different thermal dynamics. Specific assumptions and definitions regarding terms like "heat sink" and "transmittance" remain unresolved.

Elquery
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Howdy all.
Regarding the phenomenon of radiative night sky cooling, where an object (such as a blackbody) on the surface of the planet cools via radiating energy into space: can the cooling be ascribed to the transmittance of the radiation through the atmosphere (as such a clearer night with less water vapor has a greater cooling effect) or can the atmosphere somehow be dubbed 'an absorption sink'?

At least one source has used the term heat sink: "Radiative cooling is a consequence of heat loss by longwave radiation emission toward the sky, where the sky can be treated as a heat sink for exterior surfaces of the buildings." - https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/htj.21459

Another source used the word absorb as well as heat sink.

To me, it seems as though it is primarily the transmittance of the body radiation that determines the cooling effect (though certainly some is absorbed and subsequently diffusely re-emitted).
 
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Elquery said:
Regarding the phenomenon of radiative night sky cooling, where an object (such as a blackbody) on the surface of the planet cools via radiating energy into space: can the cooling be ascribed to the transmittance of the radiation through the atmosphere (as such a clearer night with less water vapor has a greater cooling effect) or can the atmosphere somehow be dubbed 'an absorption sink'?
Any absorption and re-emission by the atmosphere will reduce the radiative cooling effect, because the atmosphere is warmer than space.
 
Thank you Russ, that was my sense.
I'm trying to think in terms of: I am radiating at a certain rate, and whether I 'cool' is simply a matter of the net exchange with my environment, i.e. the environment is radiating back to me at a certain rate.

When I think of it this way, it makes sense. I confuse myself when I go further and consider the difference between transmittance of radiation through something vs lack of emittance due to an object being cold (the latter is how I've heard some describe radiative night sky cooling: that the night sky 'is cold' therefore the cold sort of 'absorbs' your radiation.)

Take the case of a big block of cold charcoal sitting in a room: I will radiate towards this charcoal and the charcoal will radiate towards me. If its colder than me, it'll radiate less to me than I to it. But the charcoal is not transmitting my energy in the way a clear night sky is (a gas). It is indeed absorbing my radiation. What affect does this difference have the dynamics of the two situations? I'm tempted to say that in the case of absorption, even if the object is very very cold, more energy will ultimately come back my way than in a situation of transmittance.
 
Elquery said:
But the charcoal is not transmitting my energy in the way a clear night sky is (a gas).

You'll find that even the simplest models of this are actually quite involved.

Perhaps you could think of the atmosphere as a hemispherical charcoal shell with big holes in it, through which some of your radiated EM passes, straight into space. The rest of the EM warms up the shell, which would eventually reach an equilibrium temperature between you and space (0K). Clear sky is mostly holes and cloudy sky has no direct holes.

The Power radiated from you to the shell will be P = Aσ (T14 - T24) See this Hyperphysics link. (The A in the formula will be the shell material or the shell holes, depending.) The power from the shell to you and to space and the shell to space will be given by the same formula (assume Space is 0K temperature). Given time, the shell will get to your temperature - the speed will depend on the relative areas involved.
Depending on the ratio of the areas of hole to charcoal, your temperature will fall faster of slower as the charcoal takes time to warm up from your radiated heat..

But another issue is the supply of thermal Energy from inside you to your surface. The rate will depend on your core temperature and your insulation. It's obvious that insulating will increase your final temperature.

Other issues are the Energy from the Sun, of course and the fact that the atmosphere is distributed and absorbs energy selectively according to wavelength. It's the wavelength selectivity that gives rise to the Greenhouse Effect and affects the details of your original question.
 
Elquery said:
To me, it seems as though it is primarily the transmittance of the body radiation that determines the cooling effect (though certainly some is absorbed and subsequently diffusely re-emitted).

I recently read a nice book about atmospheric physics that I would like to recommend to you, it extensively covers various absorption and emission phenomena in a easy to digest format:

Clouds in a Glass of Beer: Simple Experiments in Atmospheric Physics
by Craig F. Bohren
 
Thanks for the responses, they're all helpful. Certainly an involved subject. I'll give that book a look.
 

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