Non-thesis masters in Material Science to Material Science PhD

[Locomotionf]

I'm currently a senior Computer Science / Applied Math double major, but I've realized through my research and extracurriculars that I would much rather prefer to work in material science, specifically with biomaterials. However, due to my non-engineering background, I would need to get a masters before being able to get into a MatSci PhD program.

I've already talked to my university, and they said that I should be able to get into their program. The issue, however, is the decision between a coursework-based masters and a thesis-based masters. The coursework based masters take 12 months, while the thesis based masters takes 21 months.

The financial aspect is a huge issue for me, so I'm inclined to go towards the coursework based masters while making sure to get research experience by working in a lab during that time. I wouldn't get a thesis, but I would get more research experience in addition to *maybe* being able to get on a paper. I'm just worried that doing a non-thesis masters will significantly hurt my chances of getting into a good MatSci PhD program.

I wish I could afford to stay longer and do a thesis, but I'm not really in the position to put myself into tons of debt for the thesis. I'm not sure if it helps, but my current institution is a T10 US school. Does anyone have advice on how much this would hurt my eventual PhD application?

 

[Vanadium 50]

I've already talked to my university, and they said that I should be able to get into their program

Which program? And what exactly did they say? "We will admit you" is not the same as "we have sometimes admitted students with similar backgrounds."

 

[hutchphd]

Does "your university" offer a Mat Sci PhD? If so, how does the copursework for the no thesis Master's correspond to the coursework segment required for a PhD?

 

[Locomotionf]

Which program? And what exactly did they say? "We will admit you" is not the same as "we have sometimes admitted students with similar backgrounds."

Masters in Material Science at JHU. They said "Your credentials and gpa are good and more than likely you would get admitted based on that alone. We want you to be successful and accepting someone depends on how likely you are to succeed in the program."

 

[Locomotionf]

Does "your university" offer a Mat Sci PhD? If so, how does the copursework for the no thesis Master's correspond to the coursework segment required for a PhD?

They do offer a MatSci PhD. There is a one-to-one correlation for the coursework for the no-thesis as compared to the PhD, so I shouldn't be missing any courses they deem necessary. I'm just concerned about how not having a thesis will affect my PhD admissions chances later on when I apply, especially since the difference between the non-thesis and thesis option is essentially 60k.

 

[CrysPhys]

I'm currently a senior Computer Science / Applied Math double major, but I've realized through my research and extracurriculars that I would much rather prefer to work in material science, specifically with biomaterials. However, due to my non-engineering background, I would need to get a masters before being able to get into a MatSci PhD program. I've already talked to my university, and they said that I should be able to get into their program. The issue, however, is the decision between a coursework-based masters and a thesis-based masters. The coursework based masters take 12 months, while the thesis based masters takes 21 months.

Masters in Material Science at JHU. They said "Your credentials and gpa are good and more than likely you would get admitted based on that alone. We want you to be successful and accepting someone depends on how likely you are to succeed in the program."

They do offer a MatSci PhD. There is a one-to-one correlation for the coursework for the no-thesis as compared to the PhD, so I shouldn't be missing any courses they deem necessary. I'm just concerned about how not having a thesis will affect my PhD admissions chances later on when I apply, especially since the difference between the non-thesis and thesis option is essentially 60k.

* Time to hit the pause button. Since we're talking about US programs, I will use "MSE" to refer to a consolidated materials science and engineering program. Though you will still find distinct "materials science" and "materials engineering" programs here and there, you will most likely be applying to MSE programs for your PhD.

* Like the scenario in physics, you can apply directly to a MSE PhD program with a bachelor's in MSE; a master's in MSE (with or without a thesis) is not needed for admission. Unlike the scenario in physics, however, a terminal master's in MSE has value for future career opportunities. Check with your university, but the two-yr master's is most likely geared for grad students who want to complete a terminal master's (with added research experience); that is, they don't plan to continue to a PhD in MSE (which typically takes ~5 yrs for those with a bachelor's in MSE).

* The more crucial question for you is, What are your chances, given your background, of successfully completing a year's worth of graduate courses in MSE? You likely will have had the math background needed. But what have you taken in chemistry and physics (and maybe biology, since you are interested in biomaterials)? Any undergrad MSE electives? As a very broad generalization, MSE courses are not as demanding and intense as physics courses, but they are not a cakewalk, either. E.g., if you take grad thermodynamics and stat mech without previous undergrad courses, you'll be in for a shock. And do you know the basics, such as the distinction between a chemical compound and an alloy? Austenite vs. martensite?

* I can see a master's program being structured for students without a strong undergrad background in MSE to transition to a master's in MSE. But that would require time and opportunity for remedial coursework; which would likely entail two-years of courses (no thesis). How does the JHU master's program address this issue? Also, unless the JHU master's program explicitly makes provisions for acquiring research experience, don't expect to have enough free time to work in a lab while taking a full load of graduate courses.

* An alternative for you to consider is adding an extra year to your bachelor's program to make up deficiencies.

* What led to your interest in MSE? Are you planning to leverage your background for computational and simulation work?

 

[Locomotionf]

Thank you for your in-depth reply. The coursework-based masters (1yr) is generally made for people who do not want to pursue a PhD, whereas the thesis-based masters (2yr) is for people who do want one. I'm leaning towards the coursework-based masters since it would save me approximately 60k, and I can't afford to take on that much debt before my PhD; At least not without a *very* good reason. Given my background, that's why I want to do a masters before applying for a PhD.

As far as my background, I was initially a biology major but switched to CS / Applied Math my 2nd semester of sophomore year, so I am not completely going in blind. The most relevant courses would be molecular biology, developmental biology, and genetics. I do have basic chemistry, and I'm intending to take organic chemistry 1 during the summer I graduate (Summer 2025). Additionally, I will have taken physics 1 and 2 by the time I graduate. All things going as planned, I'll start the masters the Spring of 2026, and before that time, I intend to read through Callister's Material Science and Engineering and perhaps an additional textbook I can find on thermodynamics. I don't however have any MSE electives, but from looking at the course prereqs for the grad courses, the intro grad courses just require calculus through diffeq (which I have), chemistry (which I'll have), and physics (which I'll have).

The concern about finding time to get research experience without a thesis is the most concerning one to me currently. Since it's only for a year, I'm prepared to make sacrifices in order to get the experience I need to have a strong PhD application. I'm in the process of contacting some PIs to see if they would even consider something like that, and I'll work from what they say. If I could maybe find 10-15 hours a week for research, I believe that could potentially be enough over a 1.5 year period.

As far as adding an additional year to my bachelor's, that's not possible in the slightest due to the cost of JHU without financial aid. It would cost about 80k for a single year, which I think would be better spent getting a masters in my opinion.

As far as what led to my interest, I've always been interested in matsci, especially biomaterials. However, I would say it really came to a head through my research which is matsci adjacent and my extracurriculars. I can't really give more info on that without giving too much info to identify myself.

Finally, I'm not against using my computational background in MatSci. However, I don't want it to be all that I do. I would like to get invovled in experimental research while using computation and modeling as a tool. Essentially, I don't want to be a codemonkey that just codes all day.

 

[Vanadium 50]

A MS is a full-time job.
On top of that, you need to catch up for not having an undergraduate degree.
On top of that, you want to be spending a significant amount of time in the lab.

Is this realistic?

Note that "I have funding constraints" is an important factor, but does not answer the question is this realistic.

Is this realistic?

 

[Locomotionf]

Fair point. I'll try to get a meeting with the program director again and talk to them about my concerns / potential plans. If it ends up not being possible to get research experience during the coursework-based masters, I'll use the time I have left at my undergrad plus the 6 months until the masters starts to get as much research experience as I can.

 

[CrysPhys]

The coursework-based masters (1yr) is generally made for people who do not want to pursue a PhD, whereas the thesis-based masters (2yr) is for people who do want one. I'm leaning towards the coursework-based masters since it would save me approximately 60k, and I can't afford to take on that much debt before my PhD; At least not without a *very* good reason. Given my background, that's why I want to do a masters before applying for a PhD.

I'll try to get a meeting with the program director again and talk to them about my concerns / potential plans.

<<Emphasis added.>> The passage I highlighted sounds a bit bizarre to me. If a student intends to enroll in a PhD program and complete a PhD thesis, why would they spend a year doing a master's thesis? Especially if the student has to pay for the master's thesis out of pocket but the student will typically be funded for the PhD thesis?

Unless, the master's thesis constitutes remedial work for students like you who do not have much undergrad background in MSE. You should ask the JHU program director that question explicitly. Also ask:

* What is the success rate of students like you? That is, what is the percentage of students without a background in MSE who start a master's program actually complete it?

* Of students (like you) who have completed the master's without thesis, what percentage have continued to PhD programs? Which schools?

* Of students (like you) who have completed the master's with thesis, what percentage have continued to PhD programs? Which schools?