Studying Not doing well in a class -- Teacher is abusive. help please

[puleknow]

So in my upper division mechanics course I've stared to not do well on my quizzes.
The difference between a fail is 30 points and a few points extra is a 80 -90. The tests have a very fine line, and the teacher does not think this is a issue.

So I go to ask him for help. He gets mad at me when I don't know how to solve a problem after learning it just 5 minutes ago in class. He thinks I should be able to do every problem after just hearing about the information just once. If I do know how to solve the problem he gets mad at me for asking him something I know how to do and thinks I'm wasting his time.

If I don't know something immediately he makes insults such as, I will never do research, your lack of learning is not my problem. I can't believe you don't remember this one thing from 5 semesters ago. etc. etc.

I'm really trying hard to pass/ace this class. I have a small chance now. If not a B-A then I'll shoot for C and bite the bullet on one class. I'am acing all my other classes so... I don't know. I don't know what to do.

 

[Student100]

So in my upper division mechanics course I've stared to not do well on my quizzes.
The difference between a fail is 30 points and a few points extra is a 80 -90. The tests have a very fine line, and the teacher does not think this is a issue.

So I go to ask him for help. He gets mad at me when I don't know how to solve a problem after learning it just 5 minutes ago in class. He thinks I should be able to do every problem after just hearing about the information just once. If I do know how to solve the problem he gets mad at me for asking him something I know how to do and thinks I'm wasting his time.

If I don't know something immediately he makes insults such as, I will never do research, your lack of learning is not my problem. I can't believe you don't remember this one thing from 5 semesters ago. etc. etc.

I'm really trying hard to pass/ace this class. I have a small chance now. If not a B-A then I'll shoot for C and bite the bullet on one class. I'am acing all my other classes so... I don't know. I don't know what to do.

I don't understand your first paragraph. It doesn't make sense to me.

If your professor is being verbally abusive, grow a thicker skin, talk to the chair or dean, or dish it back out to him. Your choice. Or just bypass him altogether and go to the TA's/Tutors for help.

 

[puleknow]

I don't understand your first paragraph. It doesn't make sense to me.

If your professor is being verbally abusive, grow a thicker skin, talk to the chair or dean, or dish it back out to him. Your choice. Or just bypass him altogether and go to the TA's/Tutors for help.

Grow a thicker skin? Really? I want to learn and the result is this professor throwing insults at me? That would be fine if he was free. Hes not.

and dish it back at him? Why? So he can just not help me more?

There are no TA's/Tutors at this level...

The difference between a pass or a fail on the test is one or two questions.

I plan on already talking to the dean about this.

 

[Student100]

Grow a thicker skin? Really? I want to learn and the result is this professor throwing insults at me? That would be fine if he was free. Hes not.

Like I said, it's one option of dealing with the abuse. You don't really have that many and none of them are particularly good.

and dish it back at him? Why? So he can just not help me more?

Some peoples personalities are such that they hurl insults and demean when they're actually trying/wanting to help. It's just something you'll encounter from time to time. The best way to deal with these people is to rattle their cages as well, within reason. Also, we have one biased side of the story here, it's hard to figure out for us what's really going on and how best to approach it.

There are no TA's/Tutors at this level...

So you have even fewer options. We had TA's in some of our upper division courses.

The difference between a pass or a fail on the test is one or two questions.

Sounds about right, especially when exams/quiz's start to have only three or four questions on them.

I plan on already talking to the dean about this.

That's an option, and your prerogative.

 

[puleknow]

Like I said, it's one option of dealing with the abuse. You don't really have that many and none of them are particularly good.
Some peoples personalities are such that they hurl insults and demean when they're actually trying/wanting to help. It's just something you'll encounter from time to time. The best way to deal with these people is to rattle their cages as well, within reason. Also, we have one biased side of the story here, it's hard to figure out for us what's really going on and how best to approach it.
So you have even fewer options.
Sounds about right, especially when exams/quiz's start to have only three or four questions on them.That's an option, and your prerogative.

Well i guess you don't know. but i have depression and social anexity So abuse is determinetly for me.

As for the exam structure. I usually am able to bank a bit on partial credit for answers and usually I practice a lot of problems and that helps me get through the material.

However the quizes are 20% of my grade and are only half an hour long. I have always had at least an hour for tests and that was pretty much necessary. Now. I'm not so sure what to do. They are harder than your average test and have much too little room for error.

 

[Student100]

I guess you don't know. but i have depression and social anexity So abuse is determinetly for me.

Okay? The professors life/personality doesn't revolve around you though, nor does anyone else. You need to develop coping strategies that work for you when you encounter various people who upset your sensibilities.

As for the exam structure. I usually am able to bank a bit on partial credit for answers and usually I practice a lot of problems and that helps me get through the material.

That's great, it's what you should be doing.

However the quizes are 20% of my grade and are only half an hour long. I have always had at least an hour for tests and that was pretty much necessary. Now. I'm not so sure what to do. They are harder than your average test and have much too little room for error.

I don't see the conundrum with time. If the quiz is thirty minutes long, but you're use to an hour, you should now get use to thirty minutes. Do what you do for exams, prepare. Read the material in advance, practice before you even go to lecture on that material, do your best. That's all you can do.

 

[puleknow]

Okay? The professors life/personality doesn't revolve around you though, nor does anyone else. You need to develop coping strategies that work for you when you encounter various people who upset your sensibilities.
That's great, it's what you should be doing.
I don't see the conundrum with time. If the quiz is thirty minutes long, but you're use to an hour, you should now get use to thirty minutes. Do what you do for exams, prepare. Read the material in advance, practice before you even go to lecture on that material, do your best. That's all you can do.

There is no room for partial credit. the quizes are just very tight. I don't really know how to prepare them.
There is no reason for a professor to be an ass when someone is trying to learn.

 

[symbolipoint]

I don't understand your first paragraph. It doesn't make sense to me.

If your professor is being verbally abusive, grow a thicker skin, talk to the chair or dean, or dish it back out to him. Your choice. Or just bypass him altogether and go to the TA's/Tutors for help.

Some of that is/are bad ideas. Thicker skin/learn to tolerate bad behavior from a professor is not good and should not be necessary. "Dish it back", also bad idea, likely just to lead to extra trouble for the student on top of what he currently complained about.

 

[Student100]

Some of that is/are bad ideas. Thicker skin/learn to tolerate bad behavior from a professor is not good and should not be necessary. "Dish it back", also bad idea, likely just to lead to extra trouble for the student on top of what he currently complained about.

Like I said, it's one option of dealing with the abuse. You don't really have that many and none of them are particularly good.

There is no good advice. Going to the dean or chair is certainty no better.

 

[Dishsoap]

There is no good advice. Going to the dean or chair is certainty no better.

Why is that? If the professor is being as insulting as OP says, I think that having a conversation with the chair might be a good idea, especially if other students can back up the story. Based on the OP, I'm not sure that "insulting" is the proper term - I've also had profs be frustrated when students ask them for help, and it sounds to me like that's what's happening here.

 

[Dr. Courtney]

Your odds of success are much greater if you work harder to adapt to the professor rather than hoping or demanding the professor to adapt to you.

This will be true of all the bosses you have in life, and the professor-student relationship is just a microcosm of that. You need to learn to adapt and succeed with all kinds of people. Look at this as an opportunity for practice.

Even if you are right, blame shifting to the professor will not help you. You need to figure out what YOU need to do differently, not what HE needs to do differently. Because, you really only have control over your own actions.

As a physics major, I saw a lot of professors in undergrad and grad whose methods were not well suited to my learning style. A few were pretty bad. As a physics professor and later a lower level admin with faculty reporting to me, I saw my share of bad teachers from that side of it also. Even if pressure can be brought to bear to improve a given professor, in most cases, the time scale of improvement is too slow to really help students in the current semester course. You got to figure it out.

 

[Vanadium 50]

If the professor is being as insulting as OP says,

That's a good question. Let's look at the specifics we have been given.

• He gets mad at me when I don't know how to solve a problem after learning it just 5 minutes ago in class. I can see that. If something is unclear in class, I expect the student to raise his hand and say "I didn't understand that part".If the student doesn't do this, he's not really holding up his end of the bargain, is he?
• If I don't know something immediately he makes insults such as, I will never do research, How is that an insult? It's not very encouraging, I admit, but not everyone is going to have a research career, and not everyone is cut out for a research career. If the professor thinks that's the case for the OP, what should he say?
  
• your lack of learning is not my problem. It really isn't, if it's from 5 semesters ago.
  
• I can't believe you don't remember this one thing from 5 semesters ago. etc. etc. Physics is cumulative. The student is expected to remember things from 5 semesters ago.
• There is no room for partial credit. This isn't abuse. This is also up to the instructor.

I wouldn't describe the professor's comments as tactful, but I wouldn't describe them as abusive either.

Now, let's look at this thread. If this is an example of how the OP interacts with his instructors, I understand why a) he's not making more progress, and b) why those instructors might be getting frustrated. Phinds is trying to help, and the OP is having none of it.

Everyone can take a look at the OP's posting history. How many problems has he posted? How many technical questions? And how many life laments?

 

[Nidum]

Yes - why is everyone assuming that the professor is the bad guy ?

 

[Dr. Courtney]

Yes - why is everyone assuming that the professor is the bad guy ?

Not assuming that at all. Impossible to tell hearing one side of the story.

Having heard student complaints for many decades, my experience is most are rooted more in student fear or falling short of grade goals rather than anything the professor is doing wrong.

But one usually needs to ask careful questions and hear more than on side of the story before drawing that conclusion in a specific case. Unsubstantiated claims of "abuse" are a pretty big clue.

 

[StatGuy2000]

Not assuming that at all. Impossible to tell hearing one side of the story.

Having heard student complaints for many decades, my experience is most are rooted more in student fear or falling short of grade goals rather than anything the professor is doing wrong.

But one usually needs to ask careful questions and hear more than on side of the story before drawing that conclusion in a specific case. Unsubstantiated claims of "abuse" are a pretty big clue.

As an aside, given the one-sided nature of the discussion raised here, I sometimes wonder whether it may be advisable for students seeking one-on-one help with their professors to record their time with them (with permission from the instructor). Given that most everyone these days have smartphones and/or iPod/MP3 players, it should be relatively easy to do this.

Any thoughts?

 

[Dr. Courtney]

As an aside, given the one-sided nature of the discussion raised here, I sometimes wonder whether it may be advisable for students seeking one-on-one help with their professors to record their time with them (with permission from the instructor). Given that most everyone these days have smartphones and/or iPod/MP3 players, it should be relatively easy to do this.

Any thoughts?

I've always allowed students to record material with photo/video/audio when they asked (except for sensitive DoD materials). But on the abuse side, it was more a matter of following advice early in my career to leave the door open and the window coverings "open" so everything occurring in the office was audible and visible to passers by when working one on one with a student.

The thing with recordings these days, is they are so easy to selectively edit and post online to frame the prof in a bad light and pressure the administration to take disciplinary action that may not be warranted by more careful consideration of context and a complete set of facts. As the climate has shifted from 2013 (when I was last a professor) to 2017, I'm not sure I would trust students at most institutions to be honest in their editing and context not to use audio/video as a tool of revenge against professors they just don't like.

I would tend to prefer a university or department controlled monitoring system that recorded student-faculty interactions in their entirety. More or less something like dash cams or body cams used in law enforcement rather than smartphone snippets taken out of context. Kind of smacks of big brother, but having heard more than one exaggerated claim of faculty "abuse" motivated to get the truth rather than a distrust for faculty.

 

[TeethWhitener]

As an aside, given the one-sided nature of the discussion raised here, I sometimes wonder whether it may be advisable for students seeking one-on-one help with their professors to record their time with them (with permission from the instructor).

My emphasis. Just a friendly reminder that in many places in the US it's illegal to record someone without their explicit permission.

 

[clope023]

Yes - why is everyone assuming that the professor is the bad guy ?

If the prof is actually insulting the student, than he is the bad guy.

 

[Mmm_Pasta]

I agree with Vanadium and Dr. Courtney here. I've looked at your post history and I believe you should get help for your psychological issues if you are not already. I do notice one problem you have is you expect immediate understanding/results. Yes, there are things that the instructor could do better, but nothing you describe sounds like abuse.

I would suggest that in your instructor evaluation you describe what you did not appreciate about the interactions with the instructor and *why*. Be polite about it and avoid using the tone of voice that you have in previous posts. The instructor may possibly reflect on their behaviour if you write the comment well. I believe one reason some instructor's may not take instructor evaluations seriously is some comments just come off as rude and don't really seem to be mature. I've had students say that I belong in a mental institution, but they do not mention the behaviour or reasons why they feel that way. Similar situation with positive comments, no description of *why* they feel that way.

I also noticed an interaction you had with your research advisor where he asked "why don't you just know that?". I don't know what their body language or tone of voice was, but this does sound like a genuine question. My advisor asks me a lot of "why" questions and research does support that this forces students to piece together their conceptions of whatever material is being learned. They aren't going to just tell you the answer; this doesn't help at all. Maybe they asked because you may have mentioned previously that you did know it.

In the same thread you talk about how the material always causes you to be depressed and you get a lot of anxiety. Have you thought about considering other fields since physics is causing you this much distress? Perhaps try reflecting on yourself and/or speak to a professional. There is nothing wrong with that and I've seen a lot of students who are overly stressed, getting very little sleep, procrastination issues (which don't help with the previously mentioned things and don't help later in life), and a lot of other unhealthy habits.

 

[puleknow]

I agree with Vanadium and Dr. Courtney here. I've looked at your post history and I believe you should get help for your psychological issues if you are not already. I do notice one problem you have is you expect immediate understanding/results. Yes, there are things that the instructor could do better, but nothing you describe sounds like abuse.

I would suggest that in your instructor evaluation you describe what you did not appreciate about the interactions with the instructor and *why*. Be polite about it and avoid using the tone of voice that you have in previous posts. The instructor may possibly reflect on their behaviour if you write the comment well. I believe one reason some instructor's may not take instructor evaluations seriously is some comments just come off as rude and don't really seem to be mature. I've had students say that I belong in a mental institution, but they do not mention the behaviour or reasons why they feel that way. Similar situation with positive comments, no description of *why* they feel that way.

I also noticed an interaction you had with your research advisor where he asked "why don't you just know that?". I don't know what their body language or tone of voice was, but this does sound like a genuine question. My advisor asks me a lot of "why" questions and research does support that this forces students to piece together their conceptions of whatever material is being learned. They aren't going to just tell you the answer; this doesn't help at all. Maybe they asked because you may have mentioned previously that you did know it.

In the same thread you talk about how the material always causes you to be depressed and you get a lot of anxiety. Have you thought about considering other fields since physics is causing you this much distress? Perhaps try reflecting on yourself and/or speak to a professional. There is nothing wrong with that and I've seen a lot of students who are overly stressed, getting very little sleep, procrastination issues (which don't help with the previously mentioned things and don't help later in life), and a lot of other unhealthy habits.

Physics cause me anxiety because most of my educational life has been riddiled with teachers, and professors, who simply refuse to give a crap about my learning because often times they would see my "bad" grades in the class as my not caring.

I have been nearly shoved into a mental institution because the public school system in my state misdiagnosed me with severe autism. (i have minor). They din't know what to do with me nor did they care. Most of my anxiety in general revolves around that, so its not really something that can be glossed over.

They aren't going to just tell you the answer; this doesn't help at all.

This helps so much you wouldn't believe it. After I get the answer I begin to question it until I understand it.

I'am always polite in answering questions, I just sound stupid, which is a sin worse than murder I suppose. I can remember concepts very well in my QM class but sometimes I forgot basic things like the potential energy of a string. I may just forgot the formula from time to time.

Have you thought about considering other fields since physics is causing you this much distress?

No, not really. There is no greater sense of accomplishment and close understanding of the universe as a whole as their is physics. Even if clearly this doesn't even pierce the surface of the grand scheme of reality, its still a step in the right direction.It would be the same level of anxiety. physics itself does not cause me the stress. The numbers don't hurt me. the equations don't torment. Its the want and need to learn the material and be bright in it, only to have a constant remainder that I'm stupid and the field only accepts beyond normal people. That is what really hurts. Remember I'm in my upper division courses. So Its not like I can't do physics at all (i hope). When a teacher decides to insult my ability to preform in the class or as a physicist in general its just reinforcing the notion that I'm not included. I know that is completely stupid, but I guess if I don't fit in anywhere else, I would hope at least the field of physics has some "wacky" people like me. I guess not.

 

[Student100]

Why is that? If the professor is being as insulting as OP says, I think that having a conversation with the chair might be a good idea, especially if other students can back up the story. Based on the OP, I'm not sure that "insulting" is the proper term - I've also had profs be frustrated when students ask them for help, and it sounds to me like that's what's happening here.

Because I can think of no better way to become a pariah within the department.

 

[Dr. Courtney]

Because I can think of no better way to become a pariah within the department.

Going to the dept head is a bad idea in most cases. As it happens, my dear daughter ended up with the dept head as her official mentor (long story which I will skip.) Kinda a tough spot when he asked how a certain class was going, and there was some tension between her and the prof. I advised never to say anything negative about her profs to the department head unless it was something really extreme AND she had spoken to the prof about the issue first.

In any case, it's going to look selfish and like extremely bad tactics to go over a prof's head, especially in a case like the OP where the claim of abuse seems exaggerated. I agree with Student100 - going over the prof's head will likely backfire and make a student a pariah in the department - unless it's one of those mamby pamby departments where it's wrong to hurt any student's feelwings.

 

[Choppy]

As an aside, given the one-sided nature of the discussion raised here, I sometimes wonder whether it may be advisable for students seeking one-on-one help with their professors to record their time with them (with permission from the instructor). Given that most everyone these days have smartphones and/or iPod/MP3 players, it should be relatively easy to do this.

Any thoughts?

Not so much an objection, but I can't say that I'd feel completely comfortable with this.

• It has a strong potential to establish an adversarial tone to the student-professor interaction to begin with.
• I can't point to a specific reference, but I've heard that when people record things they tend not to pay as much attention in the moment and the experience diminishes. My own observations tend to support this. I'd hate to think of a student taking up my office time and not being fully present in the moment because "I'm recording this anyway"
• People are not perfect. Professors make mistakes, but the corrections might not always end up on the You Tube video

That said, my feelings on the issue are just that. Looking forward in time, I'm sure this kind of thing is coming. In the clinical environment patients are often encouraged to bring recording devices when they consult with physicians and other health professionals. I would not be surprised if in the not-so-distant future, just about every professional or academic interaction is recorded in some way.

 

[symbolipoint]

As an aside, given the one-sided nature of the discussion raised here, I sometimes wonder whether it may be advisable for students seeking one-on-one help with their professors to record their time with them (with permission from the instructor). Given that most everyone these days have smartphones and/or iPod/MP3 players, it should be relatively easy to do this.

Any thoughts?

Very much more modern than years ago. I still do not like the idea of using some device such as smartphone to record things like this in a classroom; never would have liked it then and would not like it now. An arranged video lecture is something entirely different.

 

[Vanadium 50]

I sometimes wonder whether it may be advisable for students seeking one-on-one help with their professors to record their time with them (with permission from the instructor).

I think in this case it would be a bad idea. The intent of the recording would not be to review the material, but to "get" the professor. It's unlikely that a professor would grant permission if he knows this is the case, and a student who decided to record anyway could get into trouble. Furthermore, a great many universities either are using lecture capture or plan to (some estimates are as high as 90%), so a professor can reasonably say "my lectures are recorded, there's no point in recording my going over them again one-on-one with you."

OP, I think you would make your point better if you took the drama down a notch, and the entitlement down a notch. Nobody is entitled to a career in physics, and if you don't know basics from your introductory classes, this is especially true.

 

[Dishsoap]

Maybe it depends on the "culture" of the department - as an undergrad, I went to the department chair a couple of times during my four years there over issues that needed to be addressed.

 

[radium]

Maybe the professor thinks that you aren't spending long enough on the problem before asking for help. You should really only ask for help if you have spend a long time trying to figure something out by yourself and have a well defined question. So not remembering something from a few semesters again probably wouldn't be an issue since you would have reviewed that before going to the professor. It is very important to be able to struggle on your own to learn something. You will become more patient and learn more in the long run.

 

[Dr. Courtney]

Maybe it depends on the "culture" of the department - as an undergrad, I went to the department chair a couple of times during my four years there over issues that needed to be addressed.

The expression I call to mind is from an academic who said, "They go over my head so often I have shoe prints on my forehead."

Twice in four years from a major in the department is very reasonable, especially if the major has a good GPA and a good reputation in the department. That will not turn you into a pariah, most likely.

I was the department's "golden boy." The one on the full ride scholarship. The one who was nominated for the Rhodes. The "great white hope." The one every faculty member loved. The son they wished for. The only physics major in decades to win the University Medal (first in class). I would not have dared speak a negative word of a faculty member. They were my foster fathers. The physics faculty were as close to "gods" as men on Earth could be when I was 18-22. I would not have spoken a negative word about them unless they had committed felonies.

That attitude served me well.

At the same time, I may have at some point had the gravitas to suggest to the department head specific room for improvement from a faculty member.

May I gently suggest most physics majors would benefit from an attitude closer to mine than closer to the OP.

 

[puleknow]

The expression I call to mind is from an academic who said, "They go over my head so often I have shoe prints on my forehead."

Twice in four years from a major in the department is very reasonable, especially if the major has a good GPA and a good reputation in the department. That will not turn you into a pariah, most likely.

I was the department's "golden boy." The one on the full ride scholarship. The one who was nominated for the Rhodes. The "great white hope." The one every faculty member loved. The son they wished for. The only physics major in decades to win the University Medal (first in class). I would not have dared speak a negative word of a faculty member. They were my foster fathers. The physics faculty were as close to "gods" as men on Earth could be when I was 18-22. I would not have spoken a negative word about them unless they had committed felonies.

That attitude served me well.

At the same time, I may have at some point had the gravitas to suggest to the department head specific room for improvement from a faculty member.

May I gently suggest most physics majors would benefit from an attitude closer to mine than closer to the OP.

What attitude I'am portraying?

 

[Dr. Courtney]

What attitude I'am portraying?

It's been pointed out by a number of faculty level physicists by now. If you haven't figured it out yet, there is only one word that comes to mind ...

 

[symbolipoint]

Is this the ONLY course in which a professor seems this way, that you have had? If it is, then in the long run, the current course and difficult professor is a temporary situation and might not ruin your physics career or education. What level of course is it?

 

[Dishsoap]

That attitude served me well.

I don't have nearly as much experience as you, but I'm going to say that there are circumstances in which I don't regret going to the department chair. When I would feel like a professor was being demeaning/insulting, I let it go (course evaluations were taken very seriously in my department, so those things sorted themselves out), however as I was also the "golden student" I was in a position to let the chair know of things that needed to change, as you were. I doubt talking to the chair is a good strategy in OP's situation, and in general I held your attitude (never daring to speak poorly of a professor), but there are exceptions that need to be made.

 

[Dr. Courtney]

When I would feel like a professor was being demeaning/insulting, I let it go (course evaluations were taken very seriously in my department, so those things sorted themselves out), however as I was also the "golden student" I was in a position to let the chair know of things that needed to change, as you were. I doubt talking to the chair is a good strategy in OP's situation, and in general I held your attitude (never daring to speak poorly of a professor), but there are exceptions that need to be made.

Regardless of how seriously course evals are taken, there is not much that can be done to pressure profs with tenure to change. Further, I've read too many course evaluations that showed clear bias (race, sex, religion, ethnicity) against profs to really take them seriously. There was also a good study by a colleague at the Air Force Academy that showed that good evals were correlated with worse downstream performance. There was a lot of evidence in that study that students rewarded teachers for easier grades and punished teachers who refused to "teach to the test."

My view is that course evaluations are better suited as tools for feedback only to the individual teacher (and anyone the individual teacher shares them with voluntarily). We have laws in this country about the exercise of racial or other biases in any way impacting job performance assessments, and there is no way to prevent those racial and other biases in anonymous student evaluations.

I'd much rather determine a profs performance from how students perform in downstream courses (and other downstream quality metrics) than turn it into a popularity contest with student evaluations. The temptation to compromise academic rigor is too great. I know of a few profs who have been offered explicit quid pro quo - good student evals in exchange for a good grade in the course and bad student evals threatened if they didn't pass.

 

[puleknow]

It's been pointed out by a number of faculty level physicists by now. If you haven't figured it out yet, there is only one word that comes to mind ...

Well I can't read people's mind but I guess I must have triggered some nerves around. I'm not very good at that sort of thing.

Regardless of what I'am portraying, I agree not to disrespect those who teach you. However in this case I'am learning next to nothing from negativity. So I do not view this certain professor as any sort of exceedingly good teacher or person who is interested in helping me whatsoever. So I see no reason to respect such a person, other than for obligation(which is already being done).

Surely the learning of physics can be done without any insults whatsoever to one's self esteem. Surely mistakes and lack of knowledge should not be treated as a death sentence but rather as a result of a human limitation. If not then shame on one who does not know everything at all times.

 

[puleknow]

I think in this case it would be a bad idea. The intent of the recording would not be to review the material, but to "get" the professor. It's unlikely that a professor would grant permission if he knows this is the case, and a student who decided to record anyway could get into trouble. Furthermore, a great many universities either are using lecture capture or plan to (some estimates are as high as 90%), so a professor can reasonably say "my lectures are recorded, there's no point in recording my going over them again one-on-one with you."

OP, I think you would make your point better if you took the drama down a notch, and the entitlement down a notch. Nobody is entitled to a career in physics, and if you don't know basics from your introductory classes, this is especially true.

I'm not asking for a career in physics on a silver platter. I'm fine with hard work.

I think you, and several other faculty members are severely missing the point of this statement, in that.

I want to learn physics by dumping my non-existent soul on it.

I wonder if there is anything that can be done by the supposed teacher who appraises me for learning when I want to and then contradicts himself by scolding me, and insulting me, when I want to learn.

 

[puleknow]

So in my upper division mechanics course I've stared to not do well on my quizzes.
The difference between a fail is 30 points and a few points extra is a 80 -90. The tests have a very fine line, and the teacher does not think this is a issue.

So I go to ask him for help. He gets mad at me when I don't know how to solve a problem after learning it just 5 minutes ago in class. He thinks I should be able to do every problem after just hearing about the information just once. If I do know how to solve the problem he gets mad at me for asking him something I know how to do and thinks I'm wasting his time.

If I don't know something immediately he makes insults such as, I will never do research, your lack of learning is not my problem. I can't believe you don't remember this one thing from 5 semesters ago. etc. etc.

I'm really trying hard to pass/ace this class. I have a small chance now. If not a B-A then I'll shoot for C and bite the bullet on one class. I'am acing all my other classes so... I don't know. I don't know what to do.

It seems this issue is very split for some odd reason.

to be honest I never expected to receive such a response.

Most of the responses have to do with claims that I'am exaggerating abuse. If that's the case I apologize. The problem I'am trying to display is supposedly not clear.

I'am trying very hard to pass this class. I hope to graduate. I'am not asking to graduate. I'am hoping to get there. I want to learn, I will do pretty much whatever it takes to get there.

This professor is essentially discouraging me from learning by commenting negatively on my stupidity. I'am stupid. So I work a lot harder in order to receive the same grades as other class mates. This professor seems to not care and would more than likely want to not see me succeed. At least that is the vibe I'am getting from him when asking questions is responded with by negativity.

I'am told that teachers love it when students really struggle , and want to learn. This seems to not be the case and rather the professor seems to be normal with those who are already completely done with the class (not asking questions, showing little interest and acing everything) than those who want to learn.

From what I know, this is contradictory to what a teacher is supposedly supposed to do.

Judging by the responses here I suppose whenever someone is struggling like this, having a lot of problems, and does not know what to do, I suppose the best route to go would be to claim that you shouldn't complain and that its normal to not be included in your physics classroom followed by a brief your entitled for even considering learning physics.

Thank you for that.

 

[Integrand]

I'm going to ignore the question of whether your portrayal of your professor is accurate. I will assume it is for the sake of argument.

If going to the professor for help is not working for you, a stopgap is to go to a TA. That's what they are there for. One needn't even have a grievance with the professor to do this. One may simply find the TA a better match.

I called this a stopgap because it avoids the main problem. Consider the pros and cons. Several bad outcomes can result from invoking disciplinary procedures. On the other hand, gaining the skill to tolerate and absorb the behaviour of people like your professor will serve you well for the rest of your life. It is a learnable skill that everyone needs. Whether you believe they should behave better is beside the point. You will meet more people like this in the future.

 

[puleknow]

I'm going to ignore the question of whether your portrayal of your professor is accurate. I will assume it is for the sake of argument.

If going to the professor for help is not working for you, a stopgap is to go to a TA. That's what they are there for. One needn't even have a grievance with the professor to do this. One may simply find the TA a better match.

I called this a stopgap because it avoids the main problem. Consider the pros and cons. Several bad outcomes can result from invoking disciplinary procedures. On the other hand, gaining the skill to tolerate and absorb the behaviour of people like your professor will serve you well for the rest of your life. It is a learnable skill that everyone needs. Whether you believe they should behave better is beside the point. You will meet more people like this in the future.

Right. This I know. There is no TA sadly. I do believe I should not have to tolerate such behavior however. I'am currently, but I'am pretty sure his behavior does not make him a good teacher, which should never be the case.

 

[Vanadium 50]

I want to learn physics by dumping my non-existent soul on it.

I thought I said turn the drama down a notch. Did I say up? If so, my mistake. I meant down.

 

[Mark44]

In post #1

The difference between a fail is 30 points and a few points extra is a 80 -90. The tests have a very fine line, and the teacher does not think this is a issue.

I don't know what you're trying to see in the first sentence above. Are you saying that a failing grade is somewhere between 50 and 60? To get to between 80 and 90 points will take 30 points, which isn't what I would call "a few points extra."

So I go to ask him for help. He gets mad at me when I don't know how to solve a problem after learning it just 5 minutes ago in class.

If you didn't understand it during class, did you ask a question about it then? Also, are you coming to class prepared by having read ahead in the material covered in that class session?

Also, when you come to the professor's office for help, do you say something like "I don't understand this" or something like "I'm working on problem 33, and the answer I got is different from the one in the back of the book."
You should get a lot more help if you can show that you have put in some effort.

I can't believe you don't remember this one thing from 5 semesters ago. etc. etc.

As already mentioned by another member, physics as presented in college is cumulative. Concepts that were presented 5 semesters ago are probably pretty basic. If you're having trouble with concepts that were covered in your freshman year, that's not a recipe for success as a junior or senior.

Post #7

There is no room for partial credit. the quizes are just very tight. I don't really know how to prepare them.

Isn't there any advance notice of when a quiz will be given, like in the course syllabus/class schedule? If notice is given, are you advised which topics will be covered in the quiz? Are there assigned homework problems? If so, are they graded and returned to you?
The best way to prepare for a quiz is make sure you have read the assigned material, have done the homework problems (and have understood them, including which ones you got wrong).

Post #20

They aren't going to just tell you the answer; this doesn't help at all.

This helps so much you wouldn't believe it. After I get the answer I begin to question it until I understand it.

Sure it helps if someone gives you the answer. You don't have to go to all the hard work of figuring the answer out yourself. It's always easier to see someone do a problem and come up with the correct answer than it is to do the problem yourself. As a 3rd year physics major, this is NOT a good strategy.

Post #34

Surely the learning of physics can be done without any insults whatsoever to one's self esteem. Surely mistakes and lack of knowledge should not be treated as a death sentence but rather as a result of a human limitation. If not then shame on one who does not know everything at all times.

I can't say whether your professor is being abusive, as you claimed early on in this thread, since we have heard only one side of the story. I agree that teaching should not be done using insults, but describing mistakes and lack of knowledge being treated as "a death sentence" is hyperbole doesn't help your argument.

 

[puleknow]

In post #1
I don't know what you're trying to see in the first sentence above. Are you saying that a failing grade is somewhere between 50 and 60? To get to between 80 and 90 points will take 30 points, which isn't what I would call "a few points extra."

If you didn't understand it during class, did you ask a question about it then? Also, are you coming to class prepared by having read ahead in the material covered in that class session?

Also, when you come to the professor's office for help, do you say something like "I don't understand this" or something like "I'm working on problem 33, and the answer I got is different from the one in the back of the book."
You should get a lot more help if you can show that you have put in some effort.

As already mentioned by another member, physics as presented in college is cumulative. Concepts that were presented 5 semesters ago are probably pretty basic. If you're having trouble with concepts that were covered in your freshman year, that's not a recipe for success as a junior or senior.

Post #7
Isn't there any advance notice of when a quiz will be given, like in the course syllabus/class schedule? If notice is given, are you advised which topics will be covered in the quiz? Are there assigned homework problems? If so, are they graded and returned to you?
The best way to prepare for a quiz is make sure you have read the assigned material, have done the homework problems (and have understood them, including which ones you got wrong).

Post #20
Sure it helps if someone gives you the answer. You don't have to go to all the hard work of figuring the answer out yourself. It's always easier to see someone do a problem and come up with the correct answer than it is to do the problem yourself. As a 3rd year physics major, this is NOT a good strategy.

Post #34
I can't say whether your professor is being abusive, as you claimed early on in this thread, since we have heard only one side of the story. I agree that teaching should not be done using insults, but describing mistakes and lack of knowledge being treated as "a death sentence" is hyperbole doesn't help your argument.

The difference between a fail and a ace is one or two questions because the questions are weighed very heavily.

10 points per multiple choice question, there are 5. You have very little room for error because you can't get partial credit.

The renaming portion of the test is one question that a random physics question based on the material of the chapter. There is not partial for that.

So if you miss a multiple choice question once or twice you end up getting 20-30% of your grade off. Miss the short problem and you will surely fail.

I do the "I'm working on problem 33, and the answer I got is different from the one in the back of the book." route. I tell about the procedure and say where i get stuck. The response is , just do it yourself(not helping with the question in any way.)

I don't have trouble understanding the basic concepts at all. I may just forget what they are sometimes. Proabley because its not being used. I looked on other threads and this is normal. I know what the potential energy for a spring does and what its used for, why we use it, what it relates to etc. I just may forget the equation for it, because I forget things.

Isn't there any advance notice of when a quiz will be given, like in the course syllabus/class schedule? If notice is given, are you advised which topics will be covered in the quiz? Are there assigned homework problems? If so, are they graded and returned to you?
The best way to prepare for a quiz is make sure you have read the assigned material, have done the homework problems (and have understood them, including which ones you got wrong).

The homework is not returned to me. I prepare for the quiz every day for two weeks. The quizes are every two weeks. This does not end up being enough for me for some reason. I do mostly every problem (at least 80% completion). I read every chapter. I take lots of notes. I question every derivation to make sure I understand them all. I look back upon previous math i may have forgotten. I carefully read the chapter spending days reviewing it over and over. (keep in mind I have other classes to time manage as well.)

and then I get a problem and usually I'm like.

waitwait

wait wait wait wait. Is my picture correct? usually the end result is yes(continue to do the problem). no, immediately lose all hope in the problem.

If its a problem I have never seen, this will usual be my biggest issue.

Sure it helps if someone gives you the answer. You don't have to go to all the hard work of figuring the answer out yourself. It's always easier to see someone do a problem and come up with the correct answer than it is to do the problem yourself. As a 3rd year physics major, this is NOT a good strategy.

The problem with this is room for failure. I'm not asking for the straight up answer. It would be like, I'm using two conservation laws to solve this problem. I'm not sure about how to find potential energy for this particular case. I feel like I'm missing something. If I'm wrong. its bad. If I'm right, i can continue the problem.

Homework should be used to evaluate your learning but, they also hamper your GPA. since every point counts there is a small room for failure. Which tends to get to the path of don't fail this problem and get the right answer before the problem begins. That is just the incentives of the school system.

Outside of the homework. Yes that is fine. But then time is of the essence, so no not really. If I'm stuck somewhere for more than 15 minutes I would like to figure out the next step please. It just not effective at that point. I fail a problem. Alright i examine it and move on. I'll do it again later. I can't examine it or understand the answer, then I'm going to forget the solution, I'll redo it after re-reading the book.

Its strange that by this point people still see the "answers" as a bad thing. Like. How else do you KNOW you are right.

I can't say whether your professor is being abusive, as you claimed early on in this thread, since we have heard only one side of the story. I agree that teaching should not be done using insults, but describing mistakes and lack of knowledge being treated as "a death sentence" is hyperbole doesn't help your argument.

What I meant was. I forgot something small. Like an equation or something we just learned in class, I would be scolded by an annoyed professor. This happened and when I asked again the argument tangented to I will never do research, which i don't know about you, is absurd in every scenario that does not help me in any whatsoever.

Like if i need to know the Lagrangian equations of motion for a certain problem, and I get stuck trying to think about the potential energy of a rolling disk on an inclined plane, (I hope that makes sense, I'm very bad at that lately) , I think your never going to do research, get out of my office, stop asking me basic questions etc... would be a thing that almost never helps with the problem at hand.

If it does help, then I guess when a student asks about some derivation just reply with ...you should just... like.. know maaaan.

It may not be abusive although, that is just my opinion. I hope we can both agree it has nothing do with physics.

 

[Vanadium 50]

10 points per multiple choice question, there are 5...So if you miss a multiple choice question once or twice you end up getting 20-30% of your grade off.

And?

If you can answer 60% of the problems shouldn't your grade be 60%? If you can answer 80% of the problems shouldn't your grade be 80%? And If you can answer 100% of the problems shouldn't your grade be 100%? How is this "abuse"?

. I know what the potential energy for a spring does and what its used for, why we use it, what it relates to etc. I just may forget the equation for it, because I forget things.

If you don't remember the equation, and don't remember how to derive it, you didn't learn it, and you're unprepared for the upper division courses. This isn't abuse. This is just a fact. You're right to be mad at a professor, but you're mad at the wrong one. You should be mad at the professor in your introductory class for passing you when you should have failed. Had you failed, you would have known that you didn't get adequate preparation and could have taken steps. Your present professor is merely telling you the truth.

 

[puleknow]

And?

If you can answer 60% of the problems shouldn't your grade be 60%? If you can answer 80% of the problems shouldn't your grade be 80%? And If you can answer 100% of the problems shouldn't your grade be 100%? How is this "abuse"?
If you don't remember the equation, and don't remember how to derive it, you didn't learn it, and you're unprepared for the upper division courses. This isn't abuse. This is just a fact. You're right to be mad at a professor, but you're mad at the wrong one. You should be mad at the professor in your introductory class for passing you when you should have failed. Had you failed, you would have known that you didn't get adequate preparation and could have taken steps. Your present professor is merely telling you the truth.

It's very obvious you don't understand what I'am saying.

Do you remember what you had to eat 3 years ago on February 10th?

Of course not.

Same thing. You can forget very minuscule things every once in a while. Your claim is that I din't derive it or din't learn it. That's not what I said. So loss by default.

If you can answer 60% of the problems shouldn't your grade be 60%? If you can answer 80% of the problems shouldn't your grade be 80%? And If you can answer 100% of the problems shouldn't your grade be 100%? How is this "abuse"?

The test are not at all structured in such a manner.

You should be mad at the professor in your introductory class for passing you when you should have failed

The next time you see a student forget a basic equation (which a lot do). go ahead and fail him back to a introductory course and see what happens.
<Insult deleted by mentor>

 

[Mark44]

The difference between a fail and a ace is one or two questions because the questions are weighed very heavily.

10 points per multiple choice question, there are 5. You have very little room for error because you can't get partial credit.

You're thinking that you should get partial credit for a wrong answer on a multiple choice quiz?

I don't have trouble understanding the basic concepts at all. I may just forget what they are sometimes.

A major part of understanding basic concepts is remembering what they are.

 

[Dishsoap]

Do you have an example of a question that you feel is unreasonable? That may help us to understand.

 

[Vanadium 50]

The thing is, you only get to control your side of the conversation. Telling people to shut up when they are saying things you don't want to hear isn't going to get you where you want to be.

If you don't remember an expression, or remember how to derive it, you don't know the material. (Mark44 made a similar comment) If you can't apply it to a problem you haven't seen before, you don't know the material. This isn't abuse. This is the definition of learning.

The path you are on does not take you towards your goals. You have two choices:

1. Continue to blame others
2. Take it upon yourself to correct your shortcomings

Only one of these paths takes you where you want to go. Up to you.

 

[clope023]

Do you remember what you had to eat 3 years ago on February 10th?

Of course not.

Same thing.

It's really not though

 

[Choppy]

At this point, I guess my question to the OP (@puleknow ) is what are you hoping for?

With respect to the grading scheme there probably isn't that much you can do about it. I understand you don't feel that it's fair, but remember that everyone else in the class is evaluated by the same system. If enough students complain about it *maybe* the professor can be convinced to change it, but that's very rare in my experience. As you progress through university, you're going to encounter different approaches to grading. Some will favour your particular strengths, some will run counter to them. And it's important that you're exposed to a variety of approaches. The real world is often less forgiving of errors than academia is.

With respect to you not being able to remember certain principles while working on problems - if I understand from your subsequent posts, it sounds like you're making a reasonable effort in your studies. If this actually is the case, I'm not sure what you're hoping this professor can do for you. The only way to get good at knowing when to apply certain principles and getting them to a state where they are readily accessible in your memory when working on problems is through study, understanding, and practice. If this isn't working (and practicing even more doesn't help), there isn't a lot a professor can do for you. There's no secret dance* that's going to improve your working memory.

With respect to the professor calling you stupid, or other derogatory behaviour - all people have a right to be treated with respect and dignity. Whether the specific behaviour is "abusive" or not is perhaps subjective and there's no point in trying to convince a bunch of people online that it is precisely as you've labelled it. Your experience is what it is. The problem is how to deal with it.

Unfortunately there may not be a lot of great options. One is to simply put your head down, slog through the course, and try to earn the best grade you can under the circumstances. Not every battle is worth fighting. But if this professor is calling you stupid and not helping you, you may need to find an alternative for figuring out the course material. This is not ideal - particularly for the cost of a university education these days, but it might be the most efficient solution.

Another option is to have an open and frank conversation with the professor about your feelings on the matter. "When you called me stupid, that made me feel belittled, was quite disrespectful, and quite frankly goes against university policy." Such conversations can be very difficult to initiate, particularly when there is a power-gradient involved. And you have to ask whether it's going to solve anything. If this professor agrees to treat you better, is that going to improve your performance in the class or your overall understanding of the material?

Others have pointed out the issues with bringing up this issue with the professor's superiors. That will likely come with consequences.

So in the end, the question comes back to: what are you hoping for at this point?
*For what it's worth, you can try cranking up the Bengals' Walk Like an Egyptian extend your right arm forward, bend your elbow and wrist at 90 degrees each, extend your left arm backward with the wrist and elbow at 90 degrees each, and pretend you're an integral. The evidence that this helps to solve integration problems however is anecdotal at best. /sarcasm

 

[Vanadium 50]

And you have to ask whether it's going to solve anything. If this professor agrees to treat you better, is that going to improve your performance in the class or your overall understanding of the material?

Outstanding point. And to be fair to everyone, puleknow never said the professor called him stupid.

For what it's worth, you can try cranking up the Bengals' Walk Like an Egyptian...

He might not be familiar with classical music. (Edit: Oh, and I think they were the Bangles. The Bengels are something else)

 

[Scargo]

If applicable, I found that being a nuisance in class did not curry favor from teachers. Frequently asking questions, which were either because I wasn't prepared or I wanted to give the teacher a hard time, due to a small mistake or weakness in their speaking on the topic, didn't get any positive responses from them.
If you usurp a lot of the prof's time then I could see him getting critical. If you get combative or argumentative and are normally at this level of collegiality, like you have been here, then you are asking for what you get.
I cannot tell the level of your education but I will say that you could work on your presentation of ideas, your writing, grammar and sentence structure. Many have had difficulty understanding what you are asking or saying in several instances. Lack of clarity that might frustrate the instructor.
I'd suggest you not go over his head but be open and frank and discuss your difficulties with depression and negativity. Perhaps this curriculum, this level of difficulty and stress is not well-suited to you? When someone points out something critically, that you are aware of and sensitive about, the common response is to get angry and feel offended and wronged.