Not Linear counting, 3D counting billions of billionths

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of visualizing large numbers, particularly in three dimensions, and how this perspective can enhance our understanding of various scientific and existential topics. Participants explore the implications of such visualization on concepts like ancestry, awareness, and the nature of reality, while also addressing the mathematical properties of numbers.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that visualizing large numbers as three-dimensional cubes can provide deeper insights into the universe, consciousness, and our connections to ancestors.
  • Another participant counters that visualizing numbers by volume is not a new concept and references existing examples found online.
  • Some participants emphasize the importance of the one-dimensional ordering of real numbers, arguing that this property is essential for their practical use, independent of visualization techniques.
  • A later reply highlights the utility of logarithms in preserving the one-dimensional ordering of numbers while managing large ranges, suggesting a mathematical framework that complements the discussion on visualization.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the novelty and utility of visualizing large numbers. While some see value in this approach for understanding complex concepts, others argue that it is not a new idea and emphasize the importance of traditional mathematical properties.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes assumptions about the nature of numbers and their visualization, as well as the implications of these ideas for understanding reality and consciousness. There are unresolved questions regarding the originality of the visualization concept and its practical applications.

Peter Gleeson
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Many of the numbers that define us and our world are beyond the scope of linear counting. If you count a billion seconds, it is more than 32 years, but if you can visualize them as a cube, it has sides of 16 minutes and 40 seconds. A billion millimetre cubes in a line span 1000km, but if you put them into a cube, they are a cubic metre. A billion billion cubic millimetres is a cubic km, or it is a line 3 times the distance to the sun. Developing the ability to recognize the true nature of uncountable numbers by visualizing them as 3D cubes gives us access to the dimensions of the universe, the nature of particle physics, the complexity of multicellular life, the number of synapses each second that cause awareness, the way we are related to distant ancestors, the rest of humanity, and how distant future generations will be related to us.
We see an object as being one thing, but it is also a billion billionths, and it is a billionth of a billion. It is a billion billion billionths of billionths and it is a billionth billionth of a billion billion. This is obviously true, but are we able to know truly what these numbers mean? I think such understandings require practice to incorporate them into our 'common sense'. The reward for doing this is a different kind of awareness. One that understands the nature of photons, the retina and the processes that create sight.
If we look back 30 generation we find a billion ancestral links to that population. That is just 750 years. If we go back 1500 year, we find a billion billion ancestral links. Only some of the people in that time possessed the exact genes that caused us to be. But there were individuals alive then who were our ancestors thousands of billions of times over. This is the way people in 1500 years will be related to us.
Every time you multiply or divide by a billion the reality of what you are investigating changes. This doesn't mean you give up and deal with it in purely symbolic ways. There is a way to recognize the limitations of our awareness and the context in which reality exists.
Is this a new idea? I learned it 23 years ago after listening to a documentary on human calculators who saw numbers as landscape. I decided that I could develop something along those same lines. It probably takes practice. It isn't something to rote learn. It has to be known. It has to be recognized without the need for applying a formula. It seems to be an intellectual tool with many applications, all of them good, all of them contributing to our ability to understand awareness, consciousness, intelligence, life, reality, time, universe and cosmos.
But is it a new and original idea? I spoke to a retired professor of particle physics and he was shocked by its implications.
 
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Visualizing numbers by volumes isn't new. I suggest you search the web for "visualize a trillion dollars" to see various examples.
 
But the fact that real numbers, of any size, can be placed in a one-dimensional order is crucial to their use. That has nothing to do with "visualizing" large numbers.
 
HallsofIvy said:
But the fact that real numbers, of any size, can be placed in a one-dimensional order is crucial to their use. That has nothing to do with "visualizing" large numbers.

That's a good point. One of the reasons that logarithms are so useful (statmech, stellar and earthquake magnitudes, pH measurements, ...) is that they preserve this property even as the reduce enormous ranges to a more tractable scale.
 

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