Not understanding the isomorphism R x R = C

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    Algebra Isomorphism
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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the isomorphism between the Cartesian product of real numbers, ℝ x ℝ, and the complex numbers, ℂ. Participants explore the implications of this isomorphism regarding algebraic structures, particularly focusing on multiplication and ideal properties.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that while ℝ x ℝ can be seen as isomorphic to ℂ via the mapping (a,b) to a + bi, the multiplication in ℝ x ℝ does not behave like that in ℂ, as demonstrated by the product of (1,0) and (0,1) yielding (0,0).
  • Another participant clarifies that the isomorphism between ℝ x ℝ and ℂ is valid as a real vector space isomorphism, but the multiplication in ℝ x ℝ does not make it a field, only a ring.
  • A participant acknowledges the absence of a square root of -1 in ℝ x ℝ, suggesting that this is a reason for the failure of multiplication to carry over as expected.
  • Further clarification is provided that while isomorphisms preserve structure, not all bijective maps are isomorphisms, and the specific multiplication operation must be defined appropriately to achieve a ring or field isomorphism.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the distinction between vector space isomorphisms and ring or field isomorphisms, but there remains some uncertainty regarding the implications of these distinctions on the ideal structure and multiplication properties.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations in understanding how different algebraic structures interact, particularly the conditions under which isomorphisms preserve various properties, such as invertibility and ideal structures.

metapuff
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Now ℝxℝ≅ℂ, seen by the map that sends (a,b) to a + bi. ℂ is a field, so the product of any two non-zero elements is non-zero. However, this doesn't seem to hold in ℝxℝ, since (1,0) * (0,1) = (0,0) even though (1,0) and (0,1) are non-zero. What am I missing?

Also, the zero ideal is maximal in ℂ, since ℂ is a field. But in ℝxℝ, we have two maximal ideals: ℝx{0} and {0}xℝ. Surely the isomorphism between ℝxℝ and ℂ ought to preserve the ideal structure?
 
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Isomorphism between ##\mathbb R\times\mathbb R## and ##\mathbb C## is an isomorphism between real vector spaces, i.e. it agrees only with addition and multiplication by real numbers. But is does not agree with the multiplication: the "natural" coordinatewise multiplication in ##\mathbb R\times\mathbb R## does not make it a filed, it only gives you a ring. The multiplication in ##\mathbb C## is quite different, and it makes ##\mathbb C## a field.
 
Ah yeah, you're right. There's no square root of -1 in ℝxℝ anyway, so it's no surprise that multiplication doesn't carry over. I'd always imagined isomorphisms as carrying over all structure, including invertibility. Thanks for clearing this up!
 
metapuff said:
I'd always imagined isomorphisms as carrying over all structure, including invertibility.
Isomorphisms do, but not all bijective maps are isomorphisms. The specific map you mentioned is linear. That makes it a vector space isomorphism, if we view ##\mathbb C## as a vector space over ##\mathbb R##, but it's not a ring isomorphism (and therefore not a field isomorphism) unless you have chosen the product operation on ##\mathbb R\times\mathbb R## to be something like the one defined by ##(a,b)(c,d)=(ac-bd,ad+bc)##.
 

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