Notation difficulties with metric and four vector

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around notation and conceptual understanding related to Lorentz transformations and the Minkowski metric in the context of relativity. Participants explore the implications of different notations, the structure of the equations presented in a specific paper, and the reasoning behind the sign conventions in the Minkowski metric.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion regarding the notation used in a paper, specifically questioning the equation L(ν)gL(ν)g = 1 and the role of L as a four-vector.
  • Another participant clarifies that the Lorentz transformation is typically represented by a 4x4 matrix, not a four-vector, and emphasizes the importance of the sign convention in the Minkowski metric.
  • It is noted that the squared length of a timelike interval must have an opposite sign to that of a spacelike interval, which is essential for the theory's consistency.
  • A participant explains that the requirement for the speed of light to be constant across inertial frames necessitates a lightlike vector to be null, leading to specific conditions on the metric components.
  • One participant identifies a misunderstanding regarding the notation in the paper, realizing that L(v) refers to a four-vector rather than the Lorentz matrix.
  • Another participant confirms that L(v) must represent a component of the Lorentz transformation matrix and discusses the matrix equation L(v)TgL(v) = g.
  • There is a preference expressed for clearer notation regarding the transpose in matrix equations, highlighting the importance of clarity in mathematical expressions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants exhibit a mix of agreement and confusion regarding the notation and implications of the equations discussed. While some clarifications are made, there remains uncertainty about the specific interpretations and conventions used in the paper.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved questions about the implications of the equations presented in the paper and the specific definitions of terms used, such as the distinction between the four-vector and the Lorentz transformation matrix.

tomwilliam2
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I'm reading an introduction to relativity which uses different notation to the standard indices used in my college course.
I came across:
L(\nu)gL(\nu)g = 1
Where L is the Lorentz transformations four-vector and g is the metric. Without the indices, I'm a little lost. Is there some convention I'm not aware of?
Also (I'm trying to remember my undergrad relativity) can someone remind me why the Minkowski metric has the sign system it does? I know you can choose (-,+,+,+) or (+,-,-,-) but I forget why the ct dimension has to be a different sign to the space dimensions.
Thanks in advance
 
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tomwilliam2 said:
I came across:
L(\nu)gL(\nu)g = 1
Where L is the Lorentz transformations four-vector and g is the metric.

The Lorentz transformation is not described by a 4-vector; it's described by a 4 x 4 matrix. So I'm confused about what this equation is supposed to be saying. Can you give a reference to the actual textbook and page number?

tomwilliam2 said:
why the ct dimension has to be a different sign to the space dimensions

More precisely, the squared length of a timelike interval has to be opposite in sign to the squared length of a spacelike interval. The simplest answer is that if you do it any other way, the theory won't work; it will make incorrect predictions. There isn't a single reason; it's the whole structure of the theory.
 
tomwilliam2 said:
but I forget why the ct dimension has to be a different sign to the space dimensions.
It's because the speed of light has to be the same in all inertial frames, which requires a lightlike vector to be null (have zero magnitude).

A lightlike velocity vector pointing along the x-axis will have components (1, 1, 0, 0) because the light travels one unit of distance in one normalized unit of time. For the magnitude of this to be zero we require ##g^{00}## and ##g^{11}## to be equal in magnitude and opposite in sign.
 
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Thanks for the replies. The paper is
"An Introduction to Relativistic Quantum Mechanics
I. From Relativity to Dirac Equation"
By M. De Sanctis
Page 8.

I did this rather late last night and didn't notice that in brackets it was a v not a \nu, which solves one of the issues I had. I still don't understand exactly what equation 2.5 (below) implies, nor how it results in equation 2.7:

gμρL(v)ρνLμσ(v)=gνσ

I realize now that L(v) is not the Lorentz matrix (that is denoted by lower case l, I think, but is L just some example four-vector?
 
I haven't looked at the paper, but ##L(v)^\mu{}_\nu## must be the number on row ##\mu##, column ##\nu## of the Lorentz transformation matrix L(v). The equality in post #4 is just the ##\mu,\nu## component of the matrix equation ##L(v)^TgL(v)=g##. (Edit: I typed ##\nu,\mu## when I should have typed ##\mu,\nu##. I have corrected it now).

A Lorentz transformation can be defined as a 4×4 matrix ##\Lambda## such that ##\Lambda^T g\Lambda =g##. So the equality in post #4 is saying that L(v) is a Lorentz transformation, nothing more, nothing less.
 
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Thanks, that clears it up. I would prefer there to be an explicit T to denote the transpose, but I guess the author is explaining that it's not needed.
 
tomwilliam2 said:
I would prefer there to be an explicit T to denote the transpose, but I guess the author is explaining that it's not needed.
The definition of matrix multiplication is ##(AB)_{ij}=A_{ik}B_{kj}##. So if you encounter something like ##A_{ki}B_{kj}##, you will have to use the definition of the transpose before you use the definition of matrix multiplication:
$$A_{ki}B_{kj} = (A^T)_{ik}B_{kj} = (A^TB)_{ij}.$$ Alternatively,
$$A_{ki}B_{kj}=B_{kj}A_{ki}=(B^T)_{jk}A_{ki} =(B^TA)_{ji} =((B^TA)^T)_{ij}.$$ It's clear from the order of the indices in the original expression that there's a transpose involved.
 

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