Notation of a Parametric Derivative

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the notation and representation of derivatives in the context of parametric equations, specifically focusing on the second derivative and its notation. Participants explore the implications of using certain derivative notations and their correctness within the framework of calculus.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant states that for parametric equations x(t) and y(t), the slope is given by (dy/dt)/(dx/dt) and questions if dy'/dt can be represented as d²y/(dx dt).
  • Another participant provides a derivation of the second derivative d²y/dx² using the chain rule, suggesting that it can be expressed as d/dt((dy/dt)/(dx/dt)) multiplied by dx/dt.
  • A different participant agrees with the previous derivation but suggests that it should involve dt/dx instead of dx/dt.
  • One participant expresses uncertainty about the notation in the original post, describing it as odd and questioning the mixing of total derivatives.
  • Another participant asserts that the proposed notation is not commonly seen for ordinary derivatives, although it may apply to partial derivatives.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the appropriateness of the notation for derivatives, with no consensus reached on the validity of the proposed representation.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved questions regarding the notation of derivatives, particularly concerning the mixing of total and partial derivatives and the implications of using certain forms in calculus.

Char. Limit
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Now first, as I'm sure you all know, for any two parametric equations x(t) and y(t), the slope of the curve thus generated is equal to the quotient (dy/dt)/(dx/dt). Also, we know that the concavity of the function (or change of slope, as I'm not sure if concavity is actually a correct term) is equal to the quotient (dy'/dt)/(dx/dt), where y'=dy/dx=(dy/dt)/(dx/dt). Now to my question... Is it allowed to represent dy'/dt as... I'll switch to latex now to make sure it comes out right...

[tex]\frac{d^2 y}{dx dt}[/tex]

...this?
 
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Char. Limit said:
Now first, as I'm sure you all know, for any two parametric equations x(t) and y(t), the slope of the curve thus generated is equal to the quotient (dy/dt)/(dx/dt). Also, we know that the concavity of the function (or change of slope, as I'm not sure if concavity is actually a correct term) is equal to the quotient (dy'/dt)/(dx/dt), where y'=dy/dx=(dy/dt)/(dx/dt). Now to my question... Is it allowed to represent dy'/dt as... I'll switch to latex now to make sure it comes out right...

[tex]\frac{d^2 y}{dx dt}[/tex]

...this?
I'll take a stab at what I think you're trying to say.

You have a curve defined by the parametric equation x = x(t) and y = y(t). Assuming that these functions are differentiable, we can talk about
[tex]\frac{dy}{dx} = \frac{\frac{dy}{dt}}{\frac{dx}{dt}}[/tex]

Then
[tex]\frac{d^2y}{dx^2} = \frac{d}{dx}\frac{\frac{dy}{dt}}{\frac{dx}{dt}}[/tex]

[tex]= \frac{d}{dt} \left(\frac{\frac{dy}{dt}}{\frac{dx}{dt}}\right) \frac{dx}{dt}[/tex]
 
Mark44 said:
[tex]\frac{d}{dx}\frac{\frac{dy}{dt}}{\frac{dx}{dt}}[/tex]

[tex]= \frac{d}{dt} \left(\frac{\frac{dy}{dt}}{\frac{dx}{dt}}\right) \frac{dx}{dt}[/tex]

Actually, I think, by the chain rule, it should be

[tex]\frac{d}{dx} \frac{\frac{dy}{dt}}{\frac{dx}{dt}} = \frac{d}{dt} \left(\frac{\frac{dy}{dt}}{\frac{dx}{dt}}\right) \frac{dt}{dx}[/tex]
 
Actually, I'm just wondering if d/dt(dy/dx) can be represented by the notation in the OP in laTEX. It seems like an odd notation, with mixed total derivatives or something.
 
AFAIK, no. For partials, yes, but I don't recall ever seeing ordinary derivatives stacked up like that.
 

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